US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

I happen to know quite a few west pilots, so I don't have that impression, but you do kinda give off that vibe to those that don't know any personally.

Why do you have that impression? Because we do not go around telling the world that we used to fly heavy metal internationally? That we do not feel the need to identify ourselves as "international" pilots which somehow are better than mere domestic pilots? Is flying to Hawaii more or less difficult than the Atlantic? Is flying onto Hawaii a domestic trip but Costa Rico an international trip, does that make it any different or make west pilots lesser pilots?

What "vibe" are you talking about? The vibe of being humble not arrogance?

 

[cleardirect]

You show me where it says SNAP BACK. You can't. The discussions centered about the rates of pay that were reduced, and FROZEN. Nothing said snap back. That was all the company introducing a term in to undermine our position. They can try it all they want. Kasher is smart enough to catch on to the FROZEN references throughout the contract. It means it goes back to the agreed position on a certain date. Your discussion of the East and West seniority arbitration is an entirely different animal. Between the PILOTS of each side, not the Company and the PILOTS. Get it? If you don't we do. That is why the LOA 93 deal is final AND binding.The east-west arbitration? Between two groups and an internal dispute.

Show me where it says "pay restoration".

Show me in the document what pay rates they restore to. What is the "agreed" position or pay rate? Show me in LOA 93.

Internal dispute. I know you guys love to throw that around. You and your neighbor get in a dispute of a property line. You both agree to go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide the dispute. That is an internal dispute. No one else is involved. Are you saying that that arbitration is not final and binding even though it says final and binding and you agreed to make it final and binding because it is an internal dispute?

BTW where is that decision? Been over a year. Could it be that it is being held until summer travel is over? Think Cleary agreed to wait so he does not have to deal with a melt down of his boys and have the company sue the union for an illegal job action?

 

[Black Swan]

Show me where it says "pay restoration".

Show me in the document what pay rates they restore to. What is the "agreed" position or pay rate? Show me in LOA 93.

Internal dispute. I know you guys love to throw that around. You and your neighbor get in a dispute of a property line. You both agree to go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide the dispute. That is an internal dispute. No one else is involved. Are you saying that that arbitration is not final and binding even though it says final and binding and you agreed to make it final and binding because it is an internal dispute?

How many times does it get put right in front of your face, the fact ALPA was dumped, and replaced. That was an ALPA arbitration, to use the former is to perpetuate it. You never got a joint contract, you never will get Nicolau. Like it or not, the installment of USAPA was THE deciding factor in the fact Nicolau has no force any more. All you have to do is wait most likely 30 days at most, and you will see what Kasher says either way. I can't believe you are that spiteful and arrogant that you cannot see the benefit of the East winning that pay. It sets the bar that much higher for a starting point if you ever believe there will be a contract.

 

[Pi brat]

Why do you have that impression? Because we do not go around telling the world that we used to fly heavy metal internationally? That we do not feel the need to identify ourselves as "international" pilots which somehow are better than mere domestic pilots? Is flying to Hawaii more or less difficult than the Atlantic? Is flying onto Hawaii a domestic trip but Costa Rico an international trip, does that make it any different or make west pilots lesser pilots?

What "vibe" are you talking about? The vibe of being humble not arrogance?

Clear, clear, clear.......your lack of reading comprehension goes a long way towards that vibe. I said "I DON'T" feel that way. I don't feel the west pilots are any lesser than east. I know one west pilot that has flown all over the world and one that has pretty much the same background as me. I know some personally, so I have something more than the negative impression from here that most of you give off.

You being humble and not arrogant? HA! Thanks for that laugh! 😀

 

[Black Swan]

Show me where it says "pay restoration".

Show me in the document what pay rates they restore to. What is the "agreed" position or pay rate? Show me in LOA 93.

Internal dispute. I know you guys love to throw that around. You and your neighbor get in a dispute of a property line. You both agree to go to arbitration and let a neutral third party decide the dispute. That is an internal dispute. No one else is involved. Are you saying that that arbitration is not final and binding even though it says final and binding and you agreed to make it final and binding because it is an internal dispute?

BTW where is that decision? Been over a year. Could it be that it is being held until summer travel is over? Think Cleary agreed to wait so he does not have to deal with a melt down of his boys and have the company sue the union for an illegal job action?

That is quite the conspiracy thought. I thought Cleary was holding it over the Christmas Holiday, so there would be no melt down. Now they are waiting for summer to pass, but wait, the Holidays are coming again! If he knew of a win, why not let it out now and see you melt down? As much as you think he hates you, wouldn't that be what he would do if it was a win? And if he is conducting an illegal job action now, as you claim, wouldn't a loss inflame it more and play into what he wanted? Which is it? It is neither. It is simply Kasher taking a long time. The more you talk about arbitration and the handling of the entire process, the more confident I am that you really don't know anything about it. It shows with every post. You dig more holes than a groundhog. Show us, again, where there is any reference in the LOA 93 document that says SNAPBACK. The document itself. You keep referencing what the company argued, and THAT was NOT in the LOA.

 

[cleardirect]

How many times does it get put right in front of your face, the fact ALPA was dumped, and replaced. That was an ALPA arbitration, to use the former is to perpetuate it. You never got a joint contract, you never will get Nicolau. Like it or not, the installment of USAPA was THE deciding factor in the fact Nicolau has no force any more. All you have to do is wait most likely 30 days at most, and you will see what Kasher says either way. I can't believe you are that spiteful and arrogant that you cannot see the benefit of the East winning that pay. It sets the bar that much higher for a starting point if you ever believe there will be a contract.

I know you keep telling yourself that the Nicolau is gone. That it was an ALPA thing. You might want to try and convince the company they also are under the impression that Nicolau is still alive and well and the only accepted seniority list. That would be the reason we will be in front of judge Silver.

usapa is not THE deciding factor. There were 3 parties to that agreement. I know you think usapa is the master of the universe and all Cleary sees but it is not true.

30 days? Would that be 30 days from now or 30 days from October or 30 days from a year from now? With the all rookie NAC we are not going to get a contract. We are not going to get a contract until judge Silver takes the Nicolau and force feeds it to you east guys. As far as setting the bar it could be set at $300 per hour and the all rookie furloughed NAC would give it away.

 

[luvthe9]

Republic picks up 80 airbus 320's. http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110622-706292.html

 

[Black Swan]

I know you keep telling yourself that the Nicolau is gone. That it was an ALPA thing. You might want to try and convince the company they also are under the impression that Nicolau is still alive and well and the only accepted seniority list. That would be the reason we will be in front of judge Silver.

usapa is not THE deciding factor. There were 3 parties to that agreement. I know you think usapa is the master of the universe and all Cleary sees but it is not true.

30 days? Would that be 30 days from now or 30 days from October or 30 days from a year from now? With the all rookie NAC we are not going to get a contract. We are not going to get a contract until judge Silver takes the Nicolau and force feeds it to you east guys. As far as setting the bar it could be set at $300 per hour and the all rookie furloughed NAC would give it away.

The one thing that is going to come out of the Kasher decision is this: both sides are going to clearly see affirmed what final and binding means in arbitration. You are going to get a nice education, as well as those on the east side who still worry about Nicolau. If the east loses Kasher, then it is final and binding. If the company loses, it is final and binding. You are not going to see or hear any Judge Silver or Wake or anyone else, because they are not talking about an internal union issue. Wait and see. I am finished with this discussion until then, and I firmly stand by it no matter what you say. I am sitting here and waiting for that Kasher decision, and it will be absolutely clear. This is a decision about a contractual issue, and it will stand. The other one? It is going to go on for as long as someone appeals it or runs out of $$$.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Are you under the false impression that this is our first rodeo? That the west pilots went from a 172 to AWA? You have no idea the experience and backgrounds of guys flying here. There are a lot of guys flying west metal that have been there and done that in every corner of the world flying very large stuff into very challenging airports.

Better get your head right and stop believing the east propaganda.

Well as a matter of fact we sorta do! Between ID theft and this, yes we get it! MM! http://scabsr.us/duw1.htm

 

[Black Swan]

I know you keep telling yourself that the Nicolau is gone. That it was an ALPA thing. You might want to try and convince the company they also are under the impression that Nicolau is still alive and well and the only accepted seniority list. That would be the reason we will be in front of judge Silver.

usapa is not THE deciding factor. There were 3 parties to that agreement. I know you think usapa is the master of the universe and all Cleary sees but it is not true.

30 days? Would that be 30 days from now or 30 days from October or 30 days from a year from now? With the all rookie NAC we are not going to get a contract. We are not going to get a contract until judge Silver takes the Nicolau and force feeds it to you east guys. As far as setting the bar it could be set at $300 per hour and the all rookie furloughed NAC would give it away.

You might be starting to get some of it clear. Back in front of Silver, then to the 9th. Doesn't sound either Final or Binding to me. Sounds like something that just goes on and on. Nobody can figure it out, how to stick it. Nobody is clear on it. How final and binding is that?

 

[nevergiveup]

I know you keep telling yourself that the Nicolau is gone. That it was an ALPA thing. You might want to try and convince the company they also are under the impression that Nicolau is still alive and well and the only accepted seniority list. That would be the reason we will be in front of judge Silver.

usapa is not THE deciding factor. There were 3 parties to that agreement. I know you think usapa is the master of the universe and all Cleary sees but it is not true.

30 days? Would that be 30 days from now or 30 days from October or 30 days from a year from now? With the all rookie NAC we are not going to get a contract. We are not going to get a contract until judge Silver takes the Nicolau and force feeds it to you east guys. As far as setting the bar it could be set at $300 per hour and the all rookie furloughed NAC would give it away.

USAPA inherited an unimplemented document, and must keep it that way. It must stay as they received it.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Serious Questions and Potentially Serious Consequences Regarding USAPA's Seniority Legal Strategy

With a Federal Court now determined to adjudicate the Declaratory Relief questions, the long awaited Day of Judgment is finally coming. What are the potential consequences for the member pilots?

See Story

 

[luvthe9]

Serious Questions and Potentially Serious Consequences Regarding USAPA's Seniority Legal Strategy

With a Federal Court now determined to adjudicate the Declaratory Relief questions, the long awaited Day of Judgment is finally coming. What are the potential consequences for the member pilots?

See Story

If Silver says the Nic is a go, it is going right to the 9th. Gee, wonder what they will say? Maybe what they said the first time? 😀 😀 😀

 

[USA320Pilot]

Judge Silver clearly addressed and articulated why the declaratory judgment lawsuit is "ripe". This is the end game and the seniority integration will be decided by Judge Silver. I suspect Leonidas or more likely USAPA will appeal Judge Silver's decision; however, this time the case will be "ripe" because of the harm that could be caused to US Airways (per the Judge's Order denying USAPA's motion to dismiss).

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[luvthe9]

Judge Silver clearly addressed and articulated why the declaratory judgment lawsuit is "ripe". This is the end game and the seniority integration will be decided by Judge Silver. I suspect Leonidas or more likely USAPA will appeal Judge Silver's decision; however, this time the case will be "ripe" because of the harm that could be caused to US Airways (per the Judge's Order denying USAPA's motion to dismiss).

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Just like all the UAL merge stuff you put out. None of it true. Silver is not the final and binding entity. Just like Wake, if she tries to tell a union how to conduct an internal dispute, she will get teed up by the 9th. USAPA is doing a GREAT job. Just wait till there is some good pension news and the Kasher decision. You are going to love what Cleary does for us! 😀 😀