US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

It's called self delusion.

It's the only way they can justify what they're trying to do.

No, traitor, it's a truthful look at where things really sit at this point in time. Silver can change that, but if she does rule in favor of the NIC.....what happens next?

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Are you willing to sit there and watch 1000 pilots retire in the East over the next 5 years before you have enough leverage to change things.....and at that point spend another 2-3 years negotiating with the company for a new contract?

Are you willing to spend the next 5 years and retire on LOA93?

Are the majority of East pilots?

You're still not getting a do over.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Correct, however, in the timeline of events, the NIC was the only SLI accepted before Parker called time out. The NIC is not carved in stone and at this point, there is room for other options. When Silver rules.....if she rules in favor of the NIC, that is where we are. At that point, any contract will be voted down keeping the NIC from being used.

Then what do you boys out West do? What other cards do you have to play? I mean, really? Are you willing to sit there and watch 1000 pilots retire in the East over the next 5 years before you have enough leverage to change things.....and at that point spend another 2-3 years negotiating with the company for a new contract?

Are you not better off giving Hummel's Administration a chance to represent the whole pilot group?

I think I have made my point on this and will drop it.....but it is something to think about.

breeze

Parker has our number. It doesn't matter what Silver says. We'll all be posturing and thumping our chests one way or another, then, whoops what the hell just happened here?

 

[mrbreeze]

Are you willing to spend the next 5 years and retire on LOA93?

Are the majority of East pilots?

You're still not getting a do over.

Yes....at $154k/yr.....I'm am better off than losing 15 yrs seniority and staying in the right seat. That is my best option and I will gladly take it.

As far as the marjority of the East.....look at the USAPA election results. It's the most unified this group has ever been.

I am not asking for a do over....especially since the NIC is not carved in stone.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Yes....at $154k/yr.....I'm am better off than losing 15 yrs seniority and staying in the right seat. That is my best option and I will gladly take it.

As far as the marjority of the East.....look at the USAPA election results. It's the most unified this group has ever been.

I am not asking for a do over....especially since the NIC is not carved in stone.

breeze

The Nic is carved in stone breeze.

And you wouldn't get a do over even if you asked.

Breeze, you ever figure out who filed this latest lawsuit?

 

[Move2CLT]

Nope...the NIC is not carved in stone. It is one proposal on the SLI. The other is DOH with C&Rs.....but neither are in effect, right? So, we are at an impasse. I am looking at ways to move forward.

Now, son't give me that crap about the NIC is the only accepted SLI. The truth, as you guys know , is that a DOH list was presented to Parker and he called a time out at that point. Nothing has moved froward since then....it has all ended up in court. Parker has not proclaimed that the NIC is the new and approved SLI, just as he has not done the same for DOH. So, get off that BS claim.

Everything is still optional, so I am just trying to talk about any new ideas.....the old ones are worn out.

I am not asking for a do over.

breeze

Um breeze. The DOH list was passed across the table and then pushed back by the company with a "no thanks."

What you say never happened.

 

[mrbreeze]

The Nic is carved in stone breeze.

And you wouldn't get a do over even if you asked.

Breeze, you ever figure out who filed this latest lawsuit?

Try to keep up.....you missed several posts tonight.

breeze

 

[fodase]

Correct, however, in the timeline of events, the NIC was the only SLI accepted before Parker called time out. The NIC is not carved in stone and at this point, there is room for other options. When Silver rules.....if she rules in favor of the NIC, that is where we are. At that point, any contract will be voted down keeping the NIC from being used.

Then what do you boys out West do? What other cards do you have to play? I mean, really? Are you willing to sit there and watch 1000 pilots retire in the East over the next 5 years before you have enough leverage to change things.....and at that point spend another 2-3 years negotiating with the company for a new contract?

Are you not better off giving Hummel's Administration a chance to represent the whole pilot group?

I think I have made my point on this and will drop it.....but it is something to think about.

breeze

Listen, the point here is that the Nic. has been inherited by usapa, and that usapa wants to change the accepted list with a different list. You are very confused as you think the Nic. just disappears as if it never existed because usapa took over. The company won't negotiate seniority with usapa, no one will negotiate seniority with usapa, the company just accepts what usapa gives them as long as it is legal. Usapa has a duty to represent all sides, east and west, it cannot pick winners and losers. Usapa inherited every single provision of both east and west contracts and is bound by them until they negotiate something different. Seniority is not negotiated, there is no give and take, it is just given to the company. The issue here is usapa wants to replace an accepted seniority list with a different list, the legality of the nic. is not in question because the Nic. was part of the tA that usapa inherited. All case law says that you cannot re-order sniority because the majority wants it, the 9th says it is not ripe. Either way you are way off, the west, company, apa has many options available, from a dfr once the contract is ratified to the apa kicking usapa out if a merger happens to management imposing a contract if the east doesn't negotiate. Think about it, usapa forced the nmb to declare us a single transportation system, with a merger the apa can do the exact same thing and pass whatever contract they want with the east having zero say on it.

 

[mrbreeze]

Listen, the point here is that the Nic. has been inherited by usapa, and that usapa wants to change the accepted list with a different list. You are very confused as you think the Nic. just disappears as if it never existed because usapa took over. The company won't negotiate seniority with usapa, no one will negotiate seniority with usapa, the company just accepts what usapa gives them as long as it is legal. Usapa has a duty to represent all sides, east and west, it cannot pick winners and losers. Usapa inherited every single provision of both east and west contracts and is bound by them until they negotiate something different. Seniority is not negotiated, there is no give and take, it is just given to the company. The issue here is usapa wants to replace an accepted seniority list with a different list, the legality of the nic. is not in question because the Nic. was part of the tA that usapa inherited. All case law says that you cannot re-order sniority because the majority wants it, the 9th says it is not ripe. Either way you are way off, the west, company, apa has many options available, from a dfr once the contract is ratified to the apa kicking usapa out if a merger happens to management imposing a contract if the east doesn't negotiate. Think about it, usapa forced the nmb to declare us a single transportation system, with a merger the apa can do the exact same thing and pass whatever contract they want with the east having zero say on it.

OK, well listen......most of that is your opinion and how you perceive and want thing to go.

breeze

 

[fodase]

I am not asking for a do over....especially since the NIC is not carved in stone.

breeze

Jeez louise, for the 1000th time, what is the only accepted list as required by the ta? there is only one, not 2 not 3, only one freakin list is part of the ta. You wonder why I call you a stupid clown? Look at your idiotic responses, only one freakin list has been accepted, can you not comprehend that? Usapa proposing to change the EXISTING list is no different than changing any other part of the contract, can you understand that?

 

[BoeingBoy]

As far as the marjority of the East.....look at the USAPA election results. It's the most unified this group has ever been.

Yep, the east split between a DOH hardliner and someone looking for a solution, and who won the runoff - the solution seeker, not the hardliner...

I am not asking for a do over....especially since the NIC is not carved in stone.

Carved in stone or not, the Nic was a seniority integration using the process both sides agreed to. So integrated seniority was established once by the Nic. Wanting another solution is wanting to redo what has already been done once - by definition a do over...

As an aside, when did Parker "call a timeout?" Did he pull the east members of the JNC out of negotiations? Did he spend a year getting ALPA replaced? Did he pull the company negotiators out of negotiations?

As another aside, why are you so sure that there'll be a merger but also say that the east will just keep voting down a TA that contains the Nic when APA and the AA pilots will have control of the process after a merger?

Jim

 

[fodase]

OK, well listen......most of that is your opinion and how you perceive and want thing to go.

breeze

Dude, is it opinion or fact that the nicolau is the only accepted list as required per the ta at this time? Again is it opinion or fact?

 

[Move2CLT]

Try to keep up.....you missed several posts tonight.

breeze

Found it breeze. Your solution was pretty damn stupid! A letter?

How asinine.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sure pal,

We all know.....I just didn't have time to respond to your's and Move's smart remarks.

Even though the DJ lawsuit is filed by the company, a letter from the West pilots and AOL could have a huge impact on the DJ. You gotta think a little deeper instead of being so willing to do your name calling.

breeze

God damn that's stupid.

Really, really stupid.

And just dripping with east greed. Gee what a surprise.

 

[Move2CLT]

It's called self delusion.

It's the only way they can justify what they're trying to do.

And breeze seems to be king.