US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

I think it is safe to say, and reasonable, that length of service should be a metric which is included in all labor seniority integrations. A recipe that works may include any number of additional ingredients depending on each individual case, but LOS to SLI's is like water is to soup.

No it'a not.

SLI's should be based on the the catagory and status of the jobs each side brought to the merger.

So say the arbitrators of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

 

[767one]

With rumors swirling US Airways has presented its AA merger plan to AMR's UCC, US Airways apparently leaking to the WSJ AMR M&A revenue and non union cost merger synergies could be $1.5 billion per year, and US Airways' senior management reportedly having met with APA's Board and AA's other unions...a merger announcement may be on the immediate horizon.

Rumors are being leaked that US Airways has reached an agreement on a pilot CBA with APA, which could be the DAL contract plus 3%, AA's DB Plan frozen, greater productivity, and the basis for a DL-NW pilot SLI.

Click here to look at DL pilot pay rates.

In my opinion, with AOL attorney Andy Jacobs already having met with APA, the AA-US SLI could be the Nicolau Award as the US starting point after Judge Silver rules, a 7-year fence, widebody C&Rs, and a ratio integration similar to DL-NW.

USA320Pilot

I guess anything is possible but DAL plus 3% seems not very likely. Merger cost synergies? Those figures are usually inflated to make the deal look better. Guess I'm a bit cynical about mergers. According to rumor some announcement will come out on Wed. although I don't think the rumor mentioned which Wed. or month or year for that matter.

 

[mrbreeze]

So say the arbitrators of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

Yeah, the ones who can't quite get a handle on reality. Sure, that's the ticket!

breeze

 

[traderjake]

I don't think I said anything about the arbritrations being anything other than relative position.

...however, even though relative position was used, DOH was a baseline.

I suggest that you take another look at it all and consider DOH as the baseline.

Slotting with DOH as the baseline.

 

[nevergiveup]

No it'a not.

SLI's should be based on the the catagory and status of the jobs each side brought to the merger.

So say the arbitrators of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations.

Time to correct things.

 

[nic4us]

Their idiocy knows no bounds. The TA-10 distribution is a joke. We are going to keep them busy until they get it right.

How was the distribution method obtained?

 

[mrbreeze]

Just something that you won't EVEN consider trying to comprehend. Again, I never said that relative position wasn't used. I mentioned DOH because that is where the respective lists originate from.....then the arbritrators adjust them for relative position. However, the basis is DOH.


breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

Just something that you won't EVEN consider trying to comprehend. Again, I never said that relative position wasn't used. I mentioned DOH because that is where the respective lists originate from.....then the arbritrators adjust them for relative position. However, the basis is DOH.


breeze

And you end up with relative seniority so it doesn't matter what the basis is.

 

[Move2CLT]

Time to correct things.

Yep. Bye bye USAPA.

 

[73320]

Ames,


Also, we are the only group where the arbitrator let junior pilots leap frog by 15 yrs.....thus untested waters....and legal challenges.

breeze

A more factual statement to correct your projecting East views and actions upon the west would be - " We were the only airline with 15 year LOS continuously employed pilots on the bottom of our list and the arbitrator integrated them with pilots at the same relative position even though the west pilots at the bottom of their list had much less LOS and they were very similar to almost every other airline in that regard. In terms of our new union we created to change this outcome, WE ARE THE ONLY GROUP WHO THINKS RESERVE FO's SHOULD GO AHEAD OF LINE HOLDING CAPTAINS."

This is a much more factual and true account of the history and current state of affairs. Sorry Breeze - nice try!

 

[Move2CLT]

A more factual statement to correct your projecting East views and actions upon the west would be - " We were the only airline with 15 year LOS continuously employed pilots on the bottom of our list and the arbitrator integrated them with pilots at the same relative position even though the west pilots at the bottom of their list had much less LOS and they were very similar to almost every other airline in that regard. In terms of our new union we created to change this outcome, WE ARE THE ONLY GROUP WHO THINKS RESERVE FO's SHOULD GO AHEAD OF LINE HOLDING CAPTAINS."

This is a much more factual and true account of the history and current state of affairs. Sorry Breeze - nice try!

Brilliant! Excellent post.

Breeze, the floor is yours.

 

[mrbreeze]

A more factual statement to correct your projecting East views and actions upon the west would be - " We were the only airline with 15 year LOS continuously employed pilots on the bottom of our list and the arbitrator integrated them with pilots at the same relative position even though the west pilots at the bottom of their list had much less LOS and they were very similar to almost every other airline in that regard. In terms of our new union we created to change this outcome, WE ARE THE ONLY GROUP WHO THINKS RESERVE FO's SHOULD GO AHEAD OF LINE HOLDING CAPTAINS."

This is a much more factual and true account of the history and current state of affairs. Sorry Breeze - nice try!

Never been to a merger, eh, junior? I never said that now did I? The key here is LOS, which equates to DOH, right?....so you want to cash in your lottery ticket and leap frog by 15 yrs....not gonna happen!

breeze

 

[USA320Pilot]

With rumors swirling US Airways has presented its AA merger plan to AMR's UCC, US Airways apparently leaking to the WSJ AMR M&A revenue and non union cost merger synergies could be $1.5 billion per year, and US Airways' senior management reportedly having met with APA's Board and AA's other unions...a merger announcement may be on the immediate horizon.

Rumors are being leaked that US Airways has reached an agreement on a pilot CBA with APA, which could be the DAL contract plus 3%, AA's DB Plan frozen, greater productivity, and the basis for a DL-NW pilot SLI.

Click here to look at DL pilot pay rates.

In my opinion, with AOL attorney Andy Jacobs already having met with APA, the AA-US SLI could be the Nicolau Award as the US starting point after Judge Silver rules, a 7-year fence, widebody C&Rs, and a ratio integration similar to DL-NW.

USA320Pilot

Delta + 3%

WB FO 12yr = $150/hr.
320 FO 12yr = $122.57/hr.

WB CA 12yr = $238/hr.
320 CA 12yr = $180hr.

 

[mrbreeze]

And you end up with relative seniority so it doesn't matter what the basis is.

Yeah, sure......if this is the new world order in SLI.

However, they are only batting 500 and it's all new territory as far as where we hit the scene. We are the only group where a 15 yr discrepancy exists. (you would think that if this was a perfect science these guys would bat 1000)

That certainly indicates that the "4 arbitrations" still have not gotten it right, regardless of what trader wants to believe and is trying to project onto this pilot group.

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

We are the only group where a 15 yr discrepancy exists.

Only because the east is the lone group in the industry where 15 years wouldn't even hold a job. The east situation was the oddball, not the method the last 4 arbitration's used - relative position by equipment.

Jim