You Must Follow Your Union Rules Doh
- Thread starter skyflyr69
- Start date
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
ClueByFour said:
You can try to decertify, but the union that is on property when the merger deal is announced is the union bylaws that will be followed. Sorry, try another escape route!!!!
It seems to me that the only one's overly excited about this merger are employees of U. Maybe its because they know they'll be out of a job in short time without this merger. AWA would not. I think that if you want to go by career expectations then U employees should definetly be stapled to the bottom of AWA employees. AWA wasn't threatened by immediate liqudation as U was/is. It's therefore easy to see that using "career expectations" that the AWA employees could expect to be around next year while the U employees were looking at unemployment.
I am just curious how many years has US been flying and how many for HP? Maybe intergrate based on comparable years x difference in length of flying? for example if US has been flying 10 yrs longer than HP then add 10 yrs of service to the HP employee and then intergrate equally. Would that or something similiar be fair and acceptable?
US Airways is the larger and older company with 30,100 workers and roots dating back to 1939. A product of industry deregulation, America West started service in 1983 and has 14,000 employees. Despite the obvious difference in size and age, restructuring isn't likely to be smooth.
Twicebaked
Veteran
- May 22, 2003
- 1,788
- 18
Once again folks, contracts state what seniority intergration is going to happen. At least with the flight attendant group,IT IS DOH!!! End of story! Whether you like it or not it was put there for a reason. Those of you that are having a problem with this concept (most of which are not US/HP employees) are going to have a rough 2 or 3 years of anquish if you don't let it go. Go ahead and decertify the afa at HP and it will be much worse for those flight attendants. We need to work together and make this work. We are not TWA, AA, or UAL. WE will show them that we can do this.
Bottom line to HP....YOU DID NOT BUY US!!! YOU DID NOT SAVE US! Your own CEO stated that HP would be running into difficulty by year end. WE MERGED!!!!! Why can't you people grasp that. Why should US be stapled???? Why shouldn't HP be stapled? US route structure is more lucrative. Why does HP think they have the right to staple anyone because US as been around longer??? With this sort of thinking it IS going to get ugly. DOH is the only thing that will work.
I am done with this conversation.
Bottom line to HP....YOU DID NOT BUY US!!! YOU DID NOT SAVE US! Your own CEO stated that HP would be running into difficulty by year end. WE MERGED!!!!! Why can't you people grasp that. Why should US be stapled???? Why shouldn't HP be stapled? US route structure is more lucrative. Why does HP think they have the right to staple anyone because US as been around longer??? With this sort of thinking it IS going to get ugly. DOH is the only thing that will work.
I am done with this conversation.
Walmartgreeter
Veteran
Bottom line to HP....YOU DID NOT BUY US!!! YOU DID NOT SAVE US! Your own CEO stated that HP would be running into difficulty by year end. WE MERGED!!!!! Why can't you people grasp that. Why should US be stapled???? Why shouldn't HP be stapled? US route structure is more lucrative. Why does HP think they have the right to staple anyone because US as been around longer??? With this sort of thinking it IS going to get ugly. DOH is the only thing that will work.
I am done with this conversation.
I HOPE you are done, and I hope everyone else is too. This PUBLIC forum is no place for such discussion. Take it to a private forum (ALPA in the case of pilots) and leave it there. From someone that has been through a few of these, you are doing nothing but creating future bad will among fellow empoyees. From someone who cares about his own integration position..you also weaken the ability of your own reps to perform their jobs. Greeter.
I am done with this conversation.
[post="271498"][/post]
[/quote]I HOPE you are done, and I hope everyone else is too. This PUBLIC forum is no place for such discussion. Take it to a private forum (ALPA in the case of pilots) and leave it there. From someone that has been through a few of these, you are doing nothing but creating future bad will among fellow empoyees. From someone who cares about his own integration position..you also weaken the ability of your own reps to perform their jobs. Greeter.
Twicebaked, there's no use in arguing. AA and UA F/As know all and are obsessed with stapling people. They troll around the US Airways boards passing out the indepth knowlege they must have from being a flight attendant for a competing airline. 
If you look through the posts on both boards- US and HP- any topic and most debate questioning AFA Merger Policy is from the same few people who work for either American or United.
If America West is unhappy with the AFA's merger policy, perhaps they should have had a different union before consolidation began. They could try to decertify AFA (UA didn't have much luck there), but I think it would be much more risky to be 2500 people with no union as opposed to 10000 AFA members come merger time.
US Airways is trading out the top half of thier seniority list for thier vast reserve of furloughees, who are more in line with America West's junior people. They are losing nearly 1000 senior people by the end of the year- that's almost equal to half of the HP F/As right there.
Although aircraft will be parked, there is growth in the next few years in not only narrowbodies but widebodies. A330s and A350s require alot more F/As than a 320 or 737 does. It's also up in the air who will fly the E170/190 fleet in the merged entity- right now it's US F/As but in a seperate division. If that flying is maintained there will be more than enough room for everyone.
The combination of US Airways and America West flight attendants, two professional, resilient groups will be a great one. HP and US crews have been very friendly to each other in airports, vans etc since the announcment, showing class and maturity that other airlines seem to lack when it comes to business transactions.
I think walmartgreeter is correct, let's keep our plans and business to ourselves. I've always felt it's not ladylike to discuss one's dirty laundry in front of others. Let the competition bash us since nothing goes on in thier forums, and wish bad things on our companies and our employees. It really shows who the real enemy is, doesn't it?
I look forward to working with my new brothers and sisters and developing a new culture and contract all our own. A nicer one than our bitter counterparts at other, larger airlines...
If you look through the posts on both boards- US and HP- any topic and most debate questioning AFA Merger Policy is from the same few people who work for either American or United.
If America West is unhappy with the AFA's merger policy, perhaps they should have had a different union before consolidation began. They could try to decertify AFA (UA didn't have much luck there), but I think it would be much more risky to be 2500 people with no union as opposed to 10000 AFA members come merger time.
US Airways is trading out the top half of thier seniority list for thier vast reserve of furloughees, who are more in line with America West's junior people. They are losing nearly 1000 senior people by the end of the year- that's almost equal to half of the HP F/As right there.
Although aircraft will be parked, there is growth in the next few years in not only narrowbodies but widebodies. A330s and A350s require alot more F/As than a 320 or 737 does. It's also up in the air who will fly the E170/190 fleet in the merged entity- right now it's US F/As but in a seperate division. If that flying is maintained there will be more than enough room for everyone.
The combination of US Airways and America West flight attendants, two professional, resilient groups will be a great one. HP and US crews have been very friendly to each other in airports, vans etc since the announcment, showing class and maturity that other airlines seem to lack when it comes to business transactions.
I think walmartgreeter is correct, let's keep our plans and business to ourselves. I've always felt it's not ladylike to discuss one's dirty laundry in front of others. Let the competition bash us since nothing goes on in thier forums, and wish bad things on our companies and our employees. It really shows who the real enemy is, doesn't it?
I look forward to working with my new brothers and sisters and developing a new culture and contract all our own. A nicer one than our bitter counterparts at other, larger airlines...
ELP_WN_Psgr
Senior
- Nov 29, 2003
- 419
- 0
I don't have a dog in this fight....the merger of HP and US probably will have not one iota of an impact on my day-to-day living...the only thing I can see is if they reduce or rearrange the schedules it could make it tougher to go thru Phoenix or Las Vegas on the ugly 737s on whose B-737s I print myself an A boarding pass at home for.
A few observations as a dispassionate observer:
HP might have had some financial problems towards the end of year, but US was in intensive care and they had sent for the priest. If HP had not stepped forward to do this, US was a goner and the buzzards would be picking over the carcass in liquidation.
I am reminded of the biblical verse that goes something like "the lion and the lamb shall lay down together." (of course, the bible neglected to add "but the lamb won't get much sleep.") I see the USAirways folks glad to have a chance for survival. All the "you have nothing to fear from US" and "we mean no harm to your planet" would kind of fall on deaf ears. Based upon DOH, the HP folks have every reason to be afraid. They should be VERY afraid.
The posters who have stated this is all an internal matter that will have to be worked out between the employee groups is exactly right. That doesn't mean us neutral observers cannot be fascinated by the Machiavellan office politics. Nor does it mean that the US folks don't have some ulterior motives. Of course they do. Everyone does. People act in their own self interest constantly.
I'm not sure there is any fair, judicious way to put the employee groups together. If it is straight DOH, the HP folks are screwed. They know it, the US folks know it, heck, everybody knows it. That doesn't mean it won't happen - it very well may.
Good fences make good neighbors but phencing Phoenix & Las Vegas is only a temporary stopgap measure. Someone will find a way to chop thru the fence and there will be a whole lot of USAirways folks on their way to the sunny Southwest where the cost of living is lower, the winters are warm, and the living is easy. (Seems that there should be a line in there about your daddy being rich and your momma being good looking but I have already mixed too many metaphors.)
I'm still not sure where all the new money is coming from. I know Airbus is forking some over...which really doesn't make sense to me but oh well. "We'll give you this money so you can buy a plane from us with it. In fact we want you to buy A350s. But we don't need A350s. Buy 'em anyway, that's what the money is for." Smells like "an aircraft in search of a market" deal.
All in all this will be interesting from a spectator point of view. Since I don;t wish anyone ill, I'll say "Good Luck" because there's a part of me that is thinking "you'll need it."
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
ALPA merger policy specifically omits DOH.BottomFeeder said:
Career expectations and avoiding windfalls is paramount.
With similar fleets, I think this integration can go relatively fairly.
However, I also think it is clear that at this point in time, AWA pilots have a higher career expectation than US pilots.
767jetz said:
767jetz,
First you say staple.--- Golden Rule theory
Now you say C.E.
So which one is it?
Similar threads
