By Benz M-100 in previous thread:
"Well, I'm an '87 hire slotted AFTER a Nov 2003 AW guy. NEVER furloughed. 15 years is worth NOTHING???"
Exactly why do you believe that that 15 years was worth nothing? It was worth as much per the Nic list as it was the day before the merger on the east list.
If the Nic list had been implemented on the day of the merger and everyone could bid any job in the combined airline, would you not have been able to hold the same job you had the day before? Would not that 2003 hire west pilot have been able to hold the same job he/she held the day before? Where's the loss you claim? Where's the gain for the west pilot?
Using the same situation with a DOH list - effective the day of the merger and everyone bids whatever their new seniority can hold - a DOH list would have east pilots who could only hold reserve 737/A320 f/o positions the day before getting captain jobs while west pilots who were captains the day before would only be able to hold junior f/o jobs at best. Who gains and who loses then?
Like most east pilots, you want to make up for your largely stagnant career - junior in 1987 and junior in 2005 - by climbing over as many west pilots as possible.
Jim
Jim,
Certainly you are smarter than this. Please
expand your view for a moment. This is about a whole lot more than
the day of the merger
and the day after.
Take the bottom of the active East list....you know.....where the 15 to 17 year discrepencies exist. These pilots (never furloghed) are seeing an additional 1500 pilots go in front of them over what a DOH list would yeild. Many of those 1500 pilots are younger on average than the typical East pilot as a whole. So, how many years does this delay their upgrade (if they even upgrade)? How many more years will they have to endure F/O pay while West pilots with 5, 10, 15 years less LOS enjoy Capt. pay. Not to mention reduced retirement contributions, bidding, vacations, schedules, etc.
The problem is TIME! Going forward in time, the
losses accrue for the East. It's not about today, it's about.....how did ALPA love to say it.....career expectations. Many East F/O's (most accually) expected to upgrade with the comming East attrition. True they will still move up the list (or get their attrition....as so many West pilots love to point out)......problem is many will not upgrade as they expected (and deserved), they will not cross that threshold now with the weight of those 1500 pilots on top of them. Summarily,
DOH or LOS is detrimental to the West temporarily.
The NIC is detrimental to the East permanently!
FWIW, I don't expect any West pilot to make up for my stagnant career! They should not pay for our stagnation on the East. On the other hand, they should not benefit from it either. NIC handed them our attrition without any protection for it. In this regard the West climbs over the East. BTW, I also don't believe any West Captain should lose his seat to an East pilot. Protections should have been/should be built to preserve the number of West pilots holding Captian in any scenario.
As for...... "Exactly why do you believe that that 15 years was worth nothing? It was
worth as much per the Nic list as it was the day before the merger on the east list.". Well, you said it yourself......
As per NIC it was worth NOTHING!
You know Jim, when I first started reading these boards I valued what you had to say. You appeared to have a good handle on many issues and spoke with what appeared to be some authority. But now......What happened man? I pretty much disregard your posts these days. They generally contain nothing but thinly veiled venom and disregard for your fellow East pilots. Shameful really.