AAA ALPA Thread 9-7 to 9-13

[aquagreen73s]

Like what? "We're going to receive a letter expressing their outrage?"

It's not called a letter but a summons and a complaint. Together they will be delivered by a registered process server.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

No. You'll simply find yourself working under the Nic list, and a little poorer because of all the assessments your union will have to charge you as a result of all the futile and wasteful litigation you caused.

I didn't cause anything. Quite the opposite. I told our MEC they were making a mistake. But who at ALPA listens to the rank and file? As I said, over and over and over, Nic can stand or die on its own merits. Just so long as ALPA is removed from the property. We've had this conversation before. What litigation? That moronic filing against the AWA MEC by AAA MEC? One lawsuit? Or is it all the supposed future lawsuits the west has been threatening since day one of USAPA going public? We'll have to see how things work out with the new union won't we?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

It's not called a letter but a summons and a complaint. Together they will be delivered by a registered process server.

To who? From Who?

Nice post. Maybe a little explanation might be in order.

 

[Bear96]

I didn't cause anything. Quite the opposite. I told our MEC they were making a mistake. But who at ALPA listens to the rank and file? As I said, over and over and over, Nic can stand or die on its own merits. Just so long as ALPA is removed from the property. We've had this conversation before. What litigation? That moronic filing against the AWA MEC by AAA MEC?

That's one. Yes it is moronic, but it will not be cheap. In addition to that one, the legal battles that may be ahead with management when management finally gets impatient with the East's games and insists on merging pilot operations and CBAs (which will include seniority lists). In addition to that, whatever other law suits and legal strategies the law firm USA320pilot keeps babbling about will be selling the East. Even if that firm doesn't file many suits, their counseling advice won't be cheap.

Or is it all the supposed future lawsuits the west has been threatening since day one of USAPA going public?

Actually, I don't think there will be too much of that from the West, beyond doing what they have to do to enforce the arbitration award.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

That's one. Yes it is moronic, but it will not be cheap. In addition to that one, the legal battles that may be ahead with management when management finally gets impatient with the East's games and insists on merging pilot operations and CBAs (which will include seniority lists). In addition to that, whatever other law suits and legal strategies the law firm USA320pilot keeps babbling about will be selling the East. Even if that firm doesn't file many suits, their counseling advice won't be cheap.
Actually, I don't think there will be too much of that from the West, beyond doing what they have to do to enforce the arbitration award.

We agree on that one. As for the rest, I am really not afraid of Doug and Co. The only real mistake is pulling the negotiators from the JNC. But that can be remedied real easy. So then what? As long as we're negotiating, every thing is dependant on that. Can't merge operations without a passed joint CBA. With or without Nic, if Doug thinks I'm voting for parity plus 3% he's been out drinking again. That $122m would still keep us at a substandard contract. But then I don't expect to be able to vote on that new CBA. I feel we will get it crammed down all of us by Prater and Co. Either way, USAPA will go forward.

As for USA320? sometimes he loses me too.

The law firm? We can afford it on voluntary donations so far. The bills are current. It's not a problem.

 

[aquagreen73s]

To who? From Who?

Nice post. Maybe a little explanation might be in order.

To: USAPA
From: AWA pilots
Cause of Action: East stupidity.

That isn't directed at you personally AAA73; you seem like a very level headed and reasonable person. But if the past is any indication, I and many others on the West are very certain that we are in need of our own advocacy. Whether it's the same cast of ALPA characters in the East or a fresh set, the need for independent West advocacy will nevertheless arise. Speaking to the East as a whole, you're nuts! And I can say with metaphysical certainty that regardless of who the bargaining agent is, the East will manage to devolve right back into the type of union leadership which has gotten the East to lose just about everything. They (the collective mindset) never seem to have an intelligent solution to anything other than to take that which is not theirs. Regardless of the safeguards or checks and balances the USAPA founders institute, it won't be enough to stop the encroachment of stupidity. No matter what you guys do, it won't take long before some idiots in USAPA will try to rewrite that which is not rewritable and when that happens, there will be a number of AWA pilots ready and waiting to crush them.

 

[Junebug172]

With all due resepct, people like you and Junebug are purposely misrepresenting information and more accurately your flat out lies are showing your true fear

How was I misrepresenting information? I was using Garland's blast. Here it is again:

BOS Pilots,

Head's up, and you're hearing it first.

In my view:

1. The Rice Committee is going nowhere in formulating a "consensual solution" acceptable to either East or West. They're on square one, and will remain there.

2. As a result of ALPA National's poll of US Airways pilots, Prater, the Executive Council and the Rice Committee now believe that the East pilots have a price at which they can be bribed to accept the Nicolau Award.

3. The AWA Executive Vice President (EVP), representing them on the Executive Council (we don't have an EVP of our own, because some members of our MEC voted for an Atlantic Southeast pilot instead), will be bringing a Resolution before the EC later this month that will force the immediate release of the Nicolau Award.

4. As we on the East are no longer participating in JNC negotiations until we reach Pay Parity with the West, ALPA National may be informing us shortly that they intend to negotiate at the JNC in our behalf.

5. The MEC's decision to not follow through with our "Pay Parity Now" Picketing event at the Company's HQ in Tempe was a huge mistake, and will be viewed by Prater, the EC, the West and Doug Parker as a weakening in our resolve to remain a separate operation with a separate, equivalent value contract (after all, the mover of that Resolution voted against taking our fight to PHX, and the seconder's votes weren't even counted, as he neither showed up nor left his proxy).

I see a sellout coming, and I'm no longer sure who is really for or against it.

As I've told you, not on my watch. If this MEC doesn't have the fighting spirit to meet all comers in stopping the implementation of the Nicolau Award, even in 100 degree heat in PHX, then I belong in a Union who does.

We shall soon see.

Garland
"You must take the war to the enemy. You must attack and go on attacking all the time."
— Major Willy Omer François Jean Coppens de Houthulst, Belgian Air Service, 37 victories W.W.I..



You still didn't answer my question: Do you consider Garland a liar?

It is YOU that is misrepresenting facts. Probably to keep that little mind of your's happy in that fantasy you live in.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

Nope, I'm not the liar. Garland is stating his opinion, but he has not seen the Wilson Poll results either nor has the AWA MEC because they are confidential as of this morning Again, my information came from the EB, EC, and the US Airways MEC. And, it appears just like when Jack Stephan reported the AWA MEC misrepresents information that many of its pilots do too.

What's very interestnig is that I have spoken with 6 pilots during the past two days who were USAPA fence sitters. Each of them submitted a representational card to USAPA because of YOUR comments. Keep up the good work because there is not pilot at either pre-merger company who is doing more to help USAPA obtain cards than you!

It now appears that the EC, Rice Committee, JNC, US Airways MEC, and AWA MEC work may no longer matter because in about 90 to 120 days USAPA will be your new union!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[AAA73Pilot]

To: USAPA
From: AWA pilots
Cause of Action: East stupidity.

That isn't directed at you personally AAA73; you seem like a very level headed and reasonable person. But if the past is any indication, I and many others on the West are very certain that we are in need of our own advocacy. Whether it's the same cast of ALPA characters in the East or a fresh set, the need for independent West advocacy will nevertheless arise. Speaking to the East as a whole, you're nuts! And I can say with metaphysical certainty that regardless of who the bargaining agent is, the East will manage to devolve right back into the type of union leadership which has gotten the East to lose just about everything. They (the collective mindset) never seem to have an intelligent solution to anything other than to take that which is not theirs. Regardless of the safeguards or checks and balances the USAPA founders institute, it won't be enough to stop the encroachment of stupidity. No matter what you guys do, it won't take long before some idiots in USAPA will try to rewrite that which is not rewritable and when that happens, there will be a number of AWA pilots ready and waiting to crush them.

Luckily, in about 6 years, maybe more or less, you can do what you want if you're still battling east west. By then the bulk of us on the east will be retired. If your speaking to the east as a whole, then you are directing it at me personally. I am not nuts when it comes to seeing ALPA removed from the property. Thanks for the tacit admission that USAPA has a chance.

If the past under ALPA is an indication, then I'll gladly take my chances. To devolve back to a framework as before is a choice unto itself. At least this time I will get a vote to do it. And believe me the USAPA leadership are not idiots. If they were, how could we have achieved what we have in so little amount of time? It looks like your blending the east ALPA leadership and USAPA's. They are in no way connected.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

How was I misrepresenting information? I was using Garland's blast. Here it is again:

BOS Pilots,

Head's up, and you're hearing it first.

In my view:

He's not a liar. Just stating his opinion. That's what In my View means. Or did that statement escape you? I never support someone who I share an opposing opinion with. Which is most of the time with him. But that's me.

 

[AWA320]

I think you made a typo.

What you meant to say was, "The objectives of USAPA are based on representing the EAST pilots at USAirways. No one else!"

Ain't that the truth!!! I for one would love to see them get it because my name would be at the very top of the law suit against this faction. Question, Mr Bradford why did you choose NOW to start your union and not after the LOA 93 cram down?? Well sir because we are attempting to get out of our obligations in BINDING ARBITRATION!! How sir do you plan to represent the pilots of both Phoenix and Las Vegas without any reps from those bases?? Well we feel that they don't need local representation this way we can force what ever we want on them. Sir how do you plan to deal with the very real fact that the west pilots will oppose your every move, this would be more like Eastern/CAL all over again?? We feel that we can win the west pilots over with long term instability.

This has the potential to get fun!

 

[pilot]

It's going to get real fun in about 2 weeks give or take a day or two.

pilot

 

[700UW]

Dont you know Garland and USA320 are best buddies?

Garland feeds him the information.

 

[aquagreen73s]

It's going to get real fun in about 2 weeks give or take a day or two.

pilot

We're just about ready out here. You guys are going to be some busy beavers having to fight a two fronted war and all.

 

[sharktooth]

I saw the wilson pole results AAA ....

The word "pole", are you making a "funny", just like U-Turn did weeks ago? Do you think the AAA Wilson poll is poking a pole at you? In that case, the context is missing. or, are you simply peeved that U-Turn continues to launch very effective salvos on you and your cronies?