AFA labor discussion (Work related)

[Barrister]

I am sure you are just trying to be funny, but does this really help your cause. You should all be united to improve the contract for ALL US flight attendants. That way you may get the chance to fly to Paris at some point.

My friends say the on the east that Paris is only about 26 hours and that most of the Europe trips go out a little more senior than 25 years on a regular basis. I am sure that there are more junior folks on some of those flights due to some of the secondary lines and the quick call for the reserve. Anyway I do not see the point of that post since the west never flew to Europe before just as the east never went to Hawaii. You do not control where your company chooses to fly their aircraft and from what bases. I am pretty sure when the economy dictates that you may see some of the new A330's end up out west too.


My one friend says that they do sometimes get the occasional Europe trip, but it is usually in the middle of the night after the plane returns for whatever reason. Then that 26 hour layover in Paris just turned into 12 and you have already been up for 24 hours so you will sleep for most of that time just to turn around and head back to the states. It is not all glamor is the common theme.

Again, I am sure you were just being funny, but focus on what really matters which is getting your JOINT NEGOTIATING TEAM to listen to EVERY one of you east and west for a contract that you can survive under. After that you can try for that Paris trip if you wish.

Sorry, just making a point.... poster BB wants you F/As to have solidarity
....and you will under DOH. Under our seniority arbitration the East
17 year never furloughed pilot was placed below read,,,junior to numerous new hires
with less than 3-4 months on the job out West. You been here 17 years
and the guy just above you was in grammer school when you were
flying fighters in the air force. Poster BB thinks that this was a just result.
The 2 groups of pilots will NEVER resolve this.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Toothy Grin]

Sorry, just making a point.... poster BB wants you F/As to have solidarity
....and you will under DOH. Under our seniority arbitration the East
17 year never furloughed pilot was placed below read,,,junior to numerous new hires
with less than 3-4 months on the job out West. You been here 17 years
and the guy just above you was in grammer school when you were
flying fighters in the air force. Poster BB thinks that this was a just result.
The 2 groups of pilots will NEVER resolve this.

NICDOA
NPJB

Sigh. Here are the knowns:

1. The pilots will never resolve their pathetic differences.
2. The pilots will continue to look pathetic while feigning attempts to find some sort of solution.
3. Pilots are pathetic.

4. The company did not walk out of the meeting. They probably showed a great deal of shock when looking at the numbers, but the co does not want to walk away from the table for any reason. They have already stated this numerous times and have been there throughout.
5. 52 hours in Paris. This is pathetic. I already told all those who read my last post in the other thread that Seniority smority, the trips East and West absolutely suck. Once again I ask, who in their right mind would stay here 30 years and MORE!!! for these lousy trips and work conditions. Pathetic. I hate to think that the dummies that are still here after all these years will be making a yea or nea decision when it comes to the next contract.
6. I think most here have a conscious and would NOT expect to be working the 52 hour Paris, but then maybe not. Isn't it true that most of the Intl FA's trade those trips only amongst themselves? Nice. A real bunch of angels.
7. Deb, the article is old and cites conditions under a different CEO, though many would say Doug is a much watered down version of Frankie. From my vantage point Doug is good at keeping this co up and running AND taking serious beatings...though lately these beatings are begining to show.

 

[Glucose Intolerant]

Sigh. Here are the knowns:

1. The pilots will never resolve their pathetic differences.
2. The pilots will continue to look pathetic while feigning attempts to find some sort of solution.
3. Pilots are pathetic.


7. Deb, the article is old and cites conditions under a different CEO, though many would say Doug is a much watered down version of Frankie. From my vantage point Doug is good at keeping this co up and running AND taking serious beatings...though lately these beatings are begining to show.

Guess we can put you and in the "un-decided" column regarding pilot co-paired trips. We can only assume that you are married to a pilot.

Yes, it might be an old article - but the same people were here when that article was written - and are still making decisions that affect all of us.
This used to be a company that someone wanted to stick around for thirty years - that is until recently.
Want to know what a horse will do? Look at it's track record.

 

[Barrister]

Sigh. Here are the knowns:

1. The pilots will never resolve their pathetic differences.
2. The pilots will continue to look pathetic while feigning attempts to find some sort of solution.
3. Pilots are pathetic.

4. The company did not walk out of the meeting. They probably showed a great deal of shock when looking at the numbers, but the co does not want to walk away from the table for any reason. They have already stated this numerous times and have been there throughout.
5. 52 hours in Paris. This is pathetic. I already told all those who read my last post in the other thread that Seniority smority, the trips East and West absolutely suck. Once again I ask, who in their right mind would stay here 30 years and MORE!!! for these lousy trips and work conditions. Pathetic. I hate to think that the dummies that are still here after all these years will be making a yea or nea decision when it comes to the next contract.
6. I think most here have a conscious and would NOT expect to be working the 52 hour Paris, but then maybe not. Isn't it true that most of the Intl FA's trade those trips only amongst themselves? Nice. A real bunch of angels.
7. Deb, the article is old and cites conditions under a different CEO, though many would say Doug is a much watered down version of Frankie. From my vantage point Doug is good at keeping this co up and running AND taking serious beatings...though lately these beatings are begining to show.

Sorry, your post is inaccurate. We have friends and co-workers who
go to international side and are never heard from again. They love it.
Your efforts to downplay the intl ops here show a lack of knowledge
of how much better it is than domestic. And if you think that the passionate
feelings of pilots who have been here 17 years and given so much to keep this place afloat
only to have an arbitrator place new hires above them, well good luck to you.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[VAflyGal]

I'm sorry, I thought this was the AFA thread.

 

[DesertFA66]

N903 the fact that the company has been unable or unwilling to negotiate a contract with either the west after their contract became amendable, or the east after our contract becomes amendable may demonstrate an intractability on the part of the company that could very well lend itself to the NMB allowing a job action leading up to CHAOS. There is a such thing as one over playing his hand.

The west contract became amenable very near the time the merger occurred five years ago. A joint contract appeared to be the solution at that time. The arbitrator is full agreement with "single contract". When the East contract becomes amendable at the end of 2011, the arbitrator will again push the "single contract" solution. The arbitrator is completely familiar with the problems that have faced the company and union with respect to the pilot group and the inability to move forward. This is not because progress or agreements can't be reached, it's because the pace has been slow, guess why? Yep, pilots.

Waiting for the pilots is a joke. Waiting for the pilots will stagnate everyone FA here. Waiting for the pilots will do no good to our FA's. Scheduling problems are based on FA's not even understanding their own contract, what they are entitled to and specific language unique to their situation at the time. Take a look at UA, CO, DL, NW, they don't stay with their pilots and things work out mostly well for the. It's not like everyday at work becomes a problem, most of the time things go as planned with little or no contact with scheduling. Is the cost of waiting for pilots really going to give us a win win in the end? I've had only a handful of problems in the past year where scheduling came into play. But my paycheck and flexibility come into play every time I go to work.

 

[john john]

the arbitrator will again push the "single contract" solution. The arbitrator is completely familiar with the problems that have faced the company and union with respect to the pilot group and the inability to move forward.

What arbitrator?

 

[VAflyGal]

Pilots or no pilots, the GARBAGE that has been negotiated is concessionary in all ways. The gains we are getting are simply PAIRITY from the other groups, period, and we are trading one thing for another.
Hell to the NO. Period. The end.

 

[Onestep2flt]

Sorry, your post is inaccurate. We have friends and co-workers who
go to international side and are never heard from again. They love it.
Your efforts to downplay the intl ops here show a lack of knowledge
of how much better it is than domestic. And if you think that the passionate
feelings of pilots who have been here 17 years and given so much to keep this place afloat
only to have an arbitrator place new hires above them, well good luck to you.

NICDOA
NPJB

While your frustration is noted about the plight of all the pilots, i agree with Vaflygal on this. You are in the wrong forum. Boeingboy is entitled to his opinion just as you are. We all are and we all have are points. This is what the forums are about. Coming together to discuss our opinions on the topic at hand. One thing I will say for Boeingboy is he always seems to have info that contributes to the conversation. I am sure you do as well but the seniority argument was already decided for the flight attendants so your info does not help this topic. I do hope that some sort of amicable solution is worked out, but the appropriate place to discuss it is in the pilot thread. Hope you understand!

So anyway, back to the discussion at hand.

N903AW, I am not saying you are completely wrong with your post. However, I think someone with legal knowledge should dig further into this. You guys are currently working toward a single agreement between two carriers. Any and all negotiations between airlines are governed by the Railway labor administration even in a merger. The language governing negotiations does not speak to self help specifically in merger negotiations. However, from what I understand of it, it also does not say these things are not available either. See, the language is not clear on the subject. Do not just trust what your MEC may have said on the subject.

That being said. I don't believe any "self help" is the answer to the current issues you guys have. The answer is either to get your negotiating team to start following the will of the flight attendants (as required by your Constitution) or to get them to leave one way or the other. Hope you guys are still working on that angle. The other thing is to get ALL flight attendants to VOTE on any tentative agreement. This has been your number one enemy in the past. Remember, nobody voted "yes" but the reality is nobody voted period. Don't let this happen this time.

 

[ebwgs]

The west contract became amenable very near the time the merger occurred five years ago. A joint contract appeared to be the solution at that time. The arbitrator is full agreement with "single contract". When the East contract becomes amendable at the end of 2011, the arbitrator will again push the "single contract" solution. The arbitrator is completely familiar with the problems that have faced the company and union with respect to the pilot group and the inability to move forward. This is not because progress or agreements can't be reached, it's because the pace has been slow, guess why? Yep, pilots.

Waiting for the pilots is a joke. Waiting for the pilots will stagnate everyone FA here. Waiting for the pilots will do no good to our FA's. Scheduling problems are based on FA's not even understanding their own contract, what they are entitled to and specific language unique to their situation at the time. Take a look at UA, CO, DL, NW, they don't stay with their pilots and things work out mostly well for the. It's not like everyday at work becomes a problem, most of the time things go as planned with little or no contact with scheduling. Is the cost of waiting for pilots really going to give us a win win in the end? I've had only a handful of problems in the past year where scheduling came into play. But my paycheck and flexibility come into play every time I go to work.

Hello Desert I realize your post generally speaks to your dislike of the Me-Too clause, and the last paragraph of your post spoke to your frustration of the delay in our contract as it relates to the Me-Too. I get it. I also get that you can't really fight for something you don't have because you've never had the MTC in your neck of the woods out west. Consequently for you, the dissolution of Me-Too is not a concession but an enhancement. To me, an an "eastie" it is indeed a concession, one of many that we've taken in our 2 bks as you very well know. I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to assume that an arbitrator would step in again and impose a "single contract" mandate 5 years after the merger was announced. The circumstances then were totally different from today, and the fact that after nearly six years of not having yet consummated a single contract, that arbitrator made a mistake in doing so. Although you may be right, I would like to think that they would have the good sense to not repeat the same mistake given what has since transpired. But please believe me, we are in no mood for taking any more concessions. We've been down that road. I'd rather wait for Section 6 before I agree to an inferior Single Contract. But that's just me.

 

[ggiby]

It brings back memories of bright green CHAOS t-shirts and the rally held in PIT at West Hills Shopping Ctr with F/As attending over 2000+ strong. That was one great night of solidarity...ok go ahead and say it, PIT is gone------- but we always voted NO on every contract !

I think that we need to drag those shirts out of our trunks.... brush off the cobwebs...... and PUT THEM BACK ON !

NOW

 

[flybynite]

I think that we need to drag those shirts out of our trunks.... brush off the cobwebs...... and PUT THEM BACK ON !

NOW

Hey, I still have my GUTS bag tag.....and I'm using it too. 🙂

 

[Travelpro72]

BLAH...BLAH...BLAH. All this BS (sorry) when we have a union presented with signatures from the majority of the east membership calling for the recall of Mike and Carol. The signatures were given to Alan, John and Anne. Anne threw dues members out of "HER" office? Ummm this is OUR office @@@@@. Then we have Grace presented with signatures at the airport who goes APE because pics were being snapped of her 'accepting' the signatures. First off you are NOT a celebrity honey and is there a policy somewhere? Anyhow, if these signatures wind up on Kevin's desk and falls on deaf ears I call for a COMPLETE decertification of AFA. The ONLY thing AFA had to offer US f/a's was DOH. Well considering the majors who COULD buy us are either non union, house union or the new UA who may quite possibly swing to IAM. Moving along....the US membership will NOT be silenced. The pony show is OOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR.

 

[flybynite]

BLAH...BLAH...BLAH. All this BS (sorry) when we have a union presented with signatures from the majority of the east membership calling for the recall of Mike and Carol. The signatures were given to Alan, John and Anne. Anne threw dues members out of "HER" office? Ummm this is OUR office @@@@@. Then we have Grace presented with signatures at the airport who goes APE because pics were being snapped of her 'accepting' the signatures. First off you are NOT a celebrity honey and is there a policy somewhere? Anyhow, if these signatures wind up on Kevin's desk and falls on deaf ears I call for a COMPLETE decertification of AFA. The ONLY thing AFA had to offer US f/a's was DOH. Well considering the majors who COULD buy us are either non union, house union or the new UA who may quite possibly swing to IAM. Moving along....the US membership will NOT be silenced. The pony show is OOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR.

When did Anne throw someone out of her office?

 

[Zarah]

Why would Ann toss people out of the union office? Why would Omar get upset? Seriously, we are all adults. Perhaps we disagree on AFA issues, but bottom line is they work for the members NOT Flores and Austin and the members are following the procedures to let the AFA officers know their position. Perhaps Ann and Omar have been in office too long and have forgotten who they work for.