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AFA labor discussion (Work related)

I just found out over 900 signatures were handed over to AFA in Washington D.C. Friday afternoon. They only needed a little over 600 to call a meeting to recall all the council officers. WOW- glad things are changing here in Charlotte and Philly. Now lets all take a guess if the officers of AFA in Philly will spare us all the costs of throwing them out or do the right thing and just step aside. Wait- I understand two are are runing for re-election. My bad!
 
John? He couldn't care less since his hoonie is on his way to CLT. If you ask me he checked out LONG ago. Grace, now that's a different story. She will be FIT TO BE TIED knowing she's being recalled. Anyone think it will be a "fly in the ointment" for her running for office? Hmmmmm
 

Wonder what the rest of this INTERIM agreement looks like? I think the pay scale is going to be a hard sell on a combined UA/CO contract. Also, what are they giving up to achieve these pay rates? It is not all about the pay folks! Good for them though for thinking outside the box and coming up with something that works for their group until a joint contract can be reached.
 
Onestep,

The actual number of days to equal 40 hours depends on the value of each day. I fly early 1-day Shuttle trips and usually 7 will do it for me.

Thanks for the insight. One of those details that we sometimes forget. I was just going on your 5 hour average minimum day.

I was really just trying to make a point about a poster that made it sound like your job was a cake walk because you only work six days a month. I took it to mean that they were saying reserves led some life of luxury. The poster clarified their statement stating they were not speaking of reserves. They were just discussing the great flexibility that your current contract affords some to drop their trips on the trade board and using vacation to achieve this. This is fine for some folks. I am sure the people that do do this have another form of income from another job/business, spouse, inheritance or what have you. They are utilizing tools given to them in your contract. Some (reserves) don't have the option to pick and choose. That is where a disconnect between your work group begins.

The person with this flexibility has sometimes forgotten that there are folks among you that don't have the choices that they have. I think your work group has become fragmented due to the very nature of your contract. The poster was trying to be well meaning by stating they want a fair contract but that in there world at least, it was a pretty good gig. The economy is still not fully recovered and the grass is not always greener. Fair enough, but that just highlights the point that there is a whole segment of the Flight Attendant group that seems to be completely ignored in the negotiating process. I believe the contracts of the past always are based on the assumption that there is going to be movement upward. This is only achieved by growth of the airline or mass retirements. Neither one of these things are taking place at the moment. First you have a management team that seems to be running a convenience store rather than an airline. Second, you have some very senior people that unfortunately had their main source of retirement taken from them through bankruptcy so they are sticking around for a while longer to try to make up the difference. The negotiators seem to still be focusing on that upward moving scenario contract of the past that still is weighted toward that non existent upward movement. This was fine in the past when there was sustained growth. Everybody "Paid" their dues for a few months and you never look back from then on. Now look, you have folks on reserve this month with twenty years from my understanding. Your negotiators are living in the past. Only they know the reason as to why. There is always going to have to be some kind of reserve system. There is no way around it in this type of job. They should not have twenty years and they should not be treated like second class citizens either.
 
Thanks for the insight. One of those details that we sometimes forget. I was just going on your 5 hour average minimum day.

I was really just trying to make a point about a poster that made it sound like your job was a cake walk because you only work six days a month. I took it to mean that they were saying reserves led some life of luxury. The poster clarified their statement stating they were not speaking of reserves. They were just discussing the great flexibility that your current contract affords some to drop their trips on the trade board and using vacation to achieve this. This is fine for some folks. I am sure the people that do do this have another form of income from another job/business, spouse, inheritance or what have you. They are utilizing tools given to them in your contract. Some (reserves) don't have the option to pick and choose. That is where a disconnect between your work group begins.

The person with this flexibility has sometimes forgotten that there are folks among you that don't have the choices that they have. I think your work group has become fragmented due to the very nature of your contract. The poster was trying to be well meaning by stating they want a fair contract but that in there world at least, it was a pretty good gig. The economy is still not fully recovered and the grass is not always greener. Fair enough, but that just highlights the point that there is a whole segment of the Flight Attendant group that seems to be completely ignored in the negotiating process. I believe the contracts of the past always are based on the assumption that there is going to be movement upward. This is only achieved by growth of the airline or mass retirements. Neither one of these things are taking place at the moment. First you have a management team that seems to be running a convenience store rather than an airline. Second, you have some very senior people that unfortunately had their main source of retirement taken from them through bankruptcy so they are sticking around for a while longer to try to make up the difference. The negotiators seem to still be focusing on that upward moving scenario contract of the past that still is weighted toward that non existent upward movement. This was fine in the past when there was sustained growth. Everybody "Paid" their dues for a few months and you never look back from then on. Now look, you have folks on reserve this month with twenty years from my understanding. Your negotiators are living in the past. Only they know the reason as to why. There is always going to have to be some kind of reserve system. There is no way around it in this type of job. They should not have twenty years and they should not be treated like second class citizens either.
You are right. This job is totally different for each person, depending what their status is. It differs for blockholder to blockholder..............I could never live on 7 days a month, but some can. And then the job is so different for blockholders and reserves. Let's just hope that although not everything in a new contract will make everyone happy, at least the overall contract will satisfy all of us as a group!!!
 
All we repeatedly asked the JNC was to listen to the membership and negotiate a contract good for ALL. They did NOT do that yet continued to tell everyone they did while basically calling us spoiled children and full of hate because many blasted them for it. The disconnect between the group has narrowed due to twenty year reserves like we see today. The reserve system the JNC brought us is not the answer while the PBS language is no walk in the park for our blockholders. This section 6 coming up better start with some fresh thinking and a COMPLETE overhaul from what we see today. I don't believe a patchwork system will work at this point. The contract we're left with today is on life support and barely working.
 
I think the real test will be whether or not the section 6 comes to fruition or not. Remember, your co-workers out west were in that very situation when the merger happened. It was set aside by a mediator in favor of a joint contract. Will it be different this time? Also, regardless of whom is picked for such a scenario, the sitting MEC president is always included from what I know. I think a lot of people were surprised to see Mr. Flores actually bring that contractual stipulation up. I wonder what his counterparts out west truly thought of this? Did they know of his plan ahead of time? It will be interesting to see what plans the Ring Master has for this circus. Is it just an illusionist trick to get your mind off his and side show Carol's true agenda? Maybe they are starting to realize that it is just a matter of time before the Lions fight back.

I said this before, but I think now is the time to have a massive protest on the international office. The new president needs to be bombarded daily about the issues you seem to be facing within your union. Including what seems to be interference from the international office itself. From the many discussions on this board there seems to be quite a bit of evidence at the very least of violating your constitution in regard to the merger. With your election in Charlotte it is clear someone tried to sweep some complaints under the rug.

Granted it is a sensitive time to show disdain for your leadership. I am sure that the leadership themselves will do everything they can to scare you. Saying things like the company will laugh and you are not showing support for your union. Not taking action would not be showing support for your union. If you don't want to continue down this path to nowhere it is time to do something. Don't worry about the company, they are already laughing.
 
I think the real test will be whether or not the section 6 comes to fruition or not. Remember, your co-workers out west were in that very situation when the merger happened. It was set aside by a mediator in favor of a joint contract. Will it be different this time? Also, regardless of whom is picked for such a scenario, the sitting MEC president is always included from what I know. I think a lot of people were surprised to see Mr. Flores actually bring that contractual stipulation up. I wonder what his counterparts out west truly thought of this? Did they know of his plan ahead of time? It will be interesting to see what plans the Ring Master has for this circus. Is it just an illusionist trick to get your mind off his and side show Carol's true agenda? Maybe they are starting to realize that it is just a matter of time before the Lions fight back.

I said this before, but I think now is the time to have a massive protest on the international office. The new president needs to be bombarded daily about the issues you seem to be facing within your union. Including what seems to be interference from the international office itself. From the many discussions on this board there seems to be quite a bit of evidence at the very least of violating your constitution in regard to the merger. With your election in Charlotte it is clear someone tried to sweep some complaints under the rug.

Granted it is a sensitive time to show disdain for your leadership. I am sure that the leadership themselves will do everything they can to scare you. Saying things like the company will laugh and you are not showing support for your union. Not taking action would not be showing support for your union. If you don't want to continue down this path to nowhere it is time to do something. Don't worry about the company, they are already laughing.
 
I think the real test will be whether or not the section 6 comes to fruition or not. Remember, your co-workers out west were in that very situation when the merger happened. It was set aside by a mediator in favor of a joint contract. Will it be different this time? Also, regardless of whom is picked for such a scenario, the sitting MEC president is always included from what I know. I think a lot of people were surprised to see Mr. Flores actually bring that contractual stipulation up. I wonder what his counterparts out west truly thought of this? Did they know of his plan ahead of time? It will be interesting to see what plans the Ring Master has for this circus. Is it just an illusionist trick to get your mind off his and side show Carol's true agenda? Maybe they are starting to realize that it is just a matter of time before the Lions fight back.

I said this before, but I think now is the time to have a massive protest on the international office. The new president needs to be bombarded daily about the issues you seem to be facing within your union. Including what seems to be interference from the international office itself. From the many discussions on this board there seems to be quite a bit of evidence at the very least of violating your constitution in regard to the merger. With your election in Charlotte it is clear someone tried to sweep some complaints under the rug.

Granted it is a sensitive time to show disdain for your leadership. I am sure that the leadership themselves will do everything they can to scare you. Saying things like the company will laugh and you are not showing support for your union. Not taking action would not be showing support for your union. If you don't want to continue down this path to nowhere it is time to do something. Don't worry about the company, they are already laughing.
Onestep you have brought some of the real meat and potatoes issues to light in your post. Flores has ridiculed and actually opposed AWA in their repeated attempts to seek approval to be released back to their Section 6 negotiations but now when the 3 ring circus is coming to town the head clown wants to be in the center. The management played him and Austin like a fiddle. The JNC willingly gave more concessions in anticipation of some light at the end of the tunnel i.e. Compensation. Yes the company is laughing now that the JNC agreed to that POS Reserve section, additional cleaning, Holiday restriction and the list goes on and on. Now that they got more concessions the management passes an insulting compensation proposal to the Union.

The only reason the JNC is applying for Section 6 negotiations so quickly is because they are hearing footsteps. Yes indeed, with the high possibility of a change in leadership as early as February here in CLT and the likelihood of a successful recall in Philly the sitting MEC is trying to get their friends of friends( i.e friends of MF ) into negotiating roles for the upcoming Section 6. The first solicitation for interested applicants for the negotiators went public just 5 days before the scheduled meeting where the MEC is going to elect the team. Does it sound like the MEC really wants any outsiders to apply? NO, its all back door or shall I say "business as usual". Let's see, who does MF owe favors? Watch and see the s**t show and see the real clowns come out of the woodwork this week when the MEC "elects" the new Section6 negotiators. The milking machine will be running full speed. Watch YOUR Union dues at work. 5 years spent on a merged agreement and we have nothing. They should be able to milk the Section 6 negotiations for 10 years. All eyes are set on $$$$$$$$. It will be interesting at the MEC meeting this week. It will be like Howie Mandel's " Deal or No Deal". The backdoor deals will go down so fast they wont know what hit them. Of course thats JMHO.
 
Section 6 very well may be turned down just as it was out west BUT change is happening as we speak regardless. The signatures are being counted for a recall of Local 70 as we speak. A recall that John NEVER thought would happen is happening which I'm positive is coming as a shock to him. Well maybe more to Grace who is running for office. Good luck with that girl. :lol: If I'm not mistaken Ann in CLT won by a very small margin correct? It is very possible that Cathy will win over Ann in CLT leaving Mike shaking in his shoes knowing the new LECP's of CLT and PHL won't be on his side. The membership wanted change yet it was ignored. If I were a sitting officer and a recall was tried but failed by only a FEW votes what would I do? Certainly not what this AFA group has done that's for sure. John knew members were pissed yet turned a blind eye. Mike knew it almost passed yet he turned a blind eye to ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE who voiced their discontent with AFA and it's direction here at US. If section 6 does not come to pass a recall of Mike and Carol will happen again I'm sure as they WILL NOT continue and better find a way to undo what they did.
 
You are right. This job is totally different for each person, depending what their status is. It differs for blockholder to blockholder..............I could never live on 7 days a month, but some can. And then the job is so different for blockholders and reserves. Let's just hope that although not everything in a new contract will make everyone happy, at least the overall contract will satisfy all of us as a group!!!
 
Onestep you have brought some of the real meat and potatoes issues to light in your post. Flores has ridiculed and actually opposed AWA in their repeated attempts to seek approval to be released back to their Section 6 negotiations but now when the 3 ring circus is coming to town the head clown wants to be in the center. The management played him and Austin like a fiddle. The JNC willingly gave more concessions in anticipation of some light at the end of the tunnel i.e. Compensation. Yes the company is laughing now that the JNC agreed to that POS Reserve section, additional cleaning, Holiday restriction and the list goes on and on. Now that they got more concessions the management passes an insulting compensation proposal to the Union.

The only reason the JNC is applying for Section 6 negotiations so quickly is because they are hearing footsteps. Yes indeed, with the high possibility of a change in leadership as early as February here in CLT and the likelihood of a successful recall in Philly the sitting MEC is trying to get their friends of friends( i.e friends of MF ) into negotiating roles for the upcoming Section 6. The first solicitation for interested applicants for the negotiators went public just 5 days before the scheduled meeting where the MEC is going to elect the team. Does it sound like the MEC really wants any outsiders to apply? NO, its all back door or shall I say "business as usual". Let's see, who does MF owe favors? Watch and see the s**t show and see the real clowns come out of the woodwork this week when the MEC "elects" the new Section6 negotiators. The milking machine will be running full speed. Watch YOUR Union dues at work. 5 years spent on a merged agreement and we have nothing. They should be able to milk the Section 6 negotiations for 10 years. All eyes are set on $$$$$$$$. It will be interesting at the MEC meeting this week. It will be like Howie Mandel's " Deal or No Deal". The backdoor deals will go down so fast they wont know what hit them. Of course thats JMHO.
Alas, one point. The JNC only filed Section 6 because the deadline to do so was Dec 31st. This was not a show of heroics and muscle flexing by the JNC; it was required of them.
You're right, look not only to whom MF owes something, but AC as well. Afterall, she is the one keeping MF in roses. And, yes, she won by a very small number of votes 43 votes.
 
Alas, one point. The JNC only filed Section 6 because the deadline to do so was Dec 31st. This was not a show of heroics and muscle flexing by the JNC; it was required of them.
You're right, look not only to whom MF owes something, but AC as well. Afterall, she is the one keeping MF in roses. And, yes, she won by a very small number of votes 43 votes.

I assume it was only required if they wanted to open early. He could have ignored the deadline and it would be status quo. At least that is what I am assuming. If he did anything right I guess this would be the one event no matter his motivation. The next question will be whether it makes it any further than meeting the filing deadline.

43 votes in Charlotte? Did the international office use the same formula they did for the recall vote? (Non voters are a vote for the incumbent?)
 

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