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AFA labor discussion (Work related)

Well, the fact that no one seems to want to elaborate on what was said at the meeting pretty much tells me that it was snow and stonewall, in other words, SNAFU.

I just flew a pretty senior trip and if it helps, the senior mamas don't like the smell of any of this.

Unless there is a seriously significant raise, and I don't mean ten bucks, they're primed to vote no also. They hate the idea of PBS and the word is AFA is seriously corrupt right now. The situation is extremely bad.

Is there a worse airline to work for?

Our hotels are crap. Our trips are crap and undoubtedly the company wonders why F/As are so grim with customers. I just flew with a F/A that is undoubtedly a nice person but is GRIMMMMMM. How is US going to compete with a ramped up Delta and United when its employees are so unhappy and badly treated, and theirs aren't?

At this point I suppose reserves have to wait to see the whole wretched thing, but in the meantime it's time to do some math. Six days reserve at Delta,or CO or Jetblue at new hire salary but blockholder status, versus what will probably be a mediocre raise and no hope getting off reserve for another eight years. I realize that the thought of flushing twelve years down the toilet is appalling, but frankly I would do it. Quality of life means everything, not to mention that if you go to their most junior bases i.e probably Kennedy you'll fly the world. Meanwhile no new widebodies and minimal growth in sight. Just my humble opinion.
 
Yep, a newbie on this post, especially after the display at the meeting, and years of hearing lies and slander I'm sick as well. Of all of you. And really, smoking will cause wrinkles. Nice try on the snarky remark... do you have anything to really say?

Anything to you? Naaah. You are so transparent it's not worth the time. You're a joke and a lacky for afa mec. Ya don't like it, then don't read this board or go to an AFA meeting where everyone is telling you what ya refuse to hear. 😉
So ya know I don't smoke- it's a character. Get it? At 41 I look better than u I will bet! 🙄
 
Okay, ladies. You're starting to sound like the pilots.

Does anyone have any constructive information about the meeting today or not?

Did they clarify any of the questions we've been asking here for the past few days?

Did they talk about the PBS system and how it will work? Is it up and running? Will it anytime soon?
 
Those of us with the ability to understand compound sentences have had no trouble understanding Mr. Flores and Mrs. Austin. There are a lot of issues that can't be answered by the words "yes" or "no".

BTW, Mrs. Austin bothers to show up for scheduling, contract negotiations, and all her other service to you ingrates. Did it ever occur to anyone that certain people out there have a very self-serving interest in removing Mike and Carol? That they don't care how vicious their lies are, or how much the controversy they're manufacturing helps the company's position? The big issues are coming up, folks. Don't lose sight of the goal. Don't believe the lies.

Seriously, you joined the board today! What department do you work for? I have been lurking for a while but joined much earlier than today. AND I do have a Master's Degree and can comprehend compound sentences. I also want to see Carol and Mike recalled and will be one of those reserves who will be leaving if this contract is ratified. I am also a f/a who was told by two different passengers on my last trip that b/c of me they would fly US Airways again b/c of my customer service. I can make up my mind and don't need someone to tell me what to do. I will be voting NO!
 
Okay, ladies. You're starting to sound like the pilots.

Does anyone have any constructive information about the meeting today or not?

Did they clarify any of the questions we've been asking here for the past few days?

Did they talk about the PBS system and how it will work? Is it up and running? Will it anytime soon?


I've given up on reading anything about what actually took place in the meeting. There are now what, 2 pages of histrionics with blame and counter blame. All posters seem to believe they are great writers, trouble is they are not writing about what happened...just alot of personal tales of "don't you know how outraged I am?" followed by "where's my spotlight?!"

I ask, how am I to take their opinions seriously when the SIMPLE question of "what happened?" cannot be answered without a bunch of narcissistic static filling these pages?

I get it. You're hurt, outraged, pissed, feeling undervalued, under represented.

New posters are welcome...
 
I ask, how am I to take their opinions seriously when the SIMPLE question of "what happened?" cannot be answered without a bunch of narcissistic static filling these pages?

Here is the Cliff Notes version. The meeting was called to order, but there was no Chairperson. The LECP disappeared into the hall or sat on the front row like a mannequin. Flores and Austin dimmed the lights and stated the Negotiations Update. Took everyone through the saga of the past 5 years. Spent a lot of time talking about how rumors of playing golf with Doug Parker got started. Talked at nasium about the pilots battle- they even tried to hide behind pilot crew meals at one point with the "Me-Too" language. (I have never seen a pilot that didn't like food or eat a crew meal- so please)

Mike talked and talked and talked about vendors and Pref Bid but never really answered any major concerns in his presentation. It was 15 minutes left in the first meeting when it became clear Mike/Carol had no plans to present or talk about the Reserve section they negotiated. This angered the members in attendance and they looked annoyed that they were forced to go over it. It was crystal clear in the room that people felt like they were not listened to at every turn. Be it 30 years or 10. To be honest it didn't phase them one bit. All Mike said was well that your opinion- you can always vote NO.

Every other sentence almost was "the company wanted" "the company needed" "the company made it clear". Never in that 8 hours did we hear ONCE "WE made it clear" "We drew the line" We told them it was a non starter" Well, that's not true- they made that clear for the A.I.L. system. Drew that line in the sand like the Berlin Wall.

In the question and answers the entire thing was chaos because there was no chair of the meeting. It was a free for all with the Officers of AFA70 saying nothing or the VP screaming at people so they could not introduce motions.

The questions I got answered were:

They are planning on granting the West a bank sck system but the East must give up a claim to the West's Short Term Disability to get the equal amount of bank time granted. CONCESSION

In Pref Bid you better know how to do A LOT of generic bidding and be flexible as the only person that gets what they want is the most senior. Floor of 40 Ceiling of 90 (per Carol but later mentioned something about 110). You can only drop to 40 if the trip you are dropping doesn't throw the base over 3% open time for that period. If you don't hold anything it will assign you a trip(God knows what) to bring you to the min line value. LOTS OF HAIL MARY BIDDING!

On reserve you must complete your RAP even after receiving a FUTURE AWARD. Currently I am released until check in. CONCESSION

RAPS on RSV can change from month to month in a base.

They may extend your OPR shift from 4 hours to 6 at company discretion (under certain circumstances) CONCESSION

AFA only negotiated a 2 hour call out for Reserves instead of 3-4 like other airlines.

If you work into your Golden or Movable day for 1 hour or less because of irregular ops you are not granted the day back. They give you some convoluted formula of bread crumb pay. CONCESSION

If there are insufficient RSV coverage to cover a RAP, a reserve may be assigned to a RAP with less than 10 hrs between previous RAP (???)

A CSD program that the company wants on the cheap and eliminated bid positions while violating seniority. CONCESSION

5:15 min day

100% SCK

A reserve will not be allowed to split for Golden days off. They must choose a RAP. CONCESSION

John then told the few remaining people that were left he was not running again and transfering to CLT.
 
Mike talked and talked and talked about vendors and Pref Bid but never really answered any major concerns in his presentation.

In Pref Bid you better know how to do A LOT of generic bidding and be flexible as the only person that gets what they want is the most senior. Floor of 40 Ceiling of 90 (per Carol but later mentioned something about 110).

We have been told repeatedly on the west side that the cap on PBS bidding will be at 110 hours. Don't let them snow you with that maximum of 90 hours B.S.

Of course with all of the senior "credit whores" out there I think it is safe to presume that there will be no trips left to choose from by the time bidding reaches the 20 years or less threshold on the seniority chain.

My suggestion, if you have 20 years or less of seniority, east or west, you better look long and hard at that Reserve section of the TA because more than likely that is what you will be working under if this TA is passed in it's present form.

PBS = CONCESSION
 
One of the things that gripes the living daylights out of me is I'm hearing "things" and not seeing them in black and white!!

So who's telling who about a 110 hr cap? Is that from your MEC/LEC or is that jumpseat gossip? ( I'm not yelling at anyone..I'm just yelling)

<_<
 
We have been told repeatedly on the west side that the cap on PBS bidding will be at 110 hours. Don't let them snow you with that maximum of 90 hours B.S.

Of course with all of the senior "credit whores" out there I think it is safe to presume that there will be no trips left to choose from by the time bidding reaches the 20 years or less threshold on the seniority chain.

My suggestion, if you have 20 years or less of seniority, east or west, you better look long and hard at that Reserve section of the TA because more than likely that is what you will be working under if this TA is passed in it's present form.

PBS = CONCESSION

One other VERY MAJOR CONSIDERATION regarding PBS - who is in control of the month to month ratios and projections? Scheduling or the union's scheduling committee? If it is scheduling, i.e. the "Company" you better hold on to your knickers and assume the position.
More of the same old "at crew scheduling's discretion" any way you slice it = ONE VERY BIG CONCESSION.

You won't see a weekend, a decent trip, much less a holiday off with less than 25 years. That's not starting a rumor, that's a number's thing. As the airline continues to shrink - and the trips become "more productive" (flying more and more with shorter RONs) it's inevitable.

A great deal of people need to look long and hard at the RSV section.... chances are if this contract passes the new provisions are going to affect a lot more than currently thought.
 
Here is the Cliff Notes version. The meeting was called to order, but there was no Chairperson. The LECP disappeared into the hall or sat on the front row like a mannequin. Flores and Austin dimmed the lights and stated the Negotiations Update. Took everyone through the saga of the past 5 years. Spent a lot of time talking about how rumors of playing golf with Doug Parker got started. Talked at nasium about the pilots battle- they even tried to hide behind pilot crew meals at one point with the "Me-Too" language. (I have never seen a pilot that didn't like food or eat a crew meal- so please)

Mike talked and talked and talked about vendors and Pref Bid but never really answered any major concerns in his presentation. It was 15 minutes left in the first meeting when it became clear Mike/Carol had no plans to present or talk about the Reserve section they negotiated. This angered the members in attendance and they looked annoyed that they were forced to go over it. It was crystal clear in the room that people felt like they were not listened to at every turn. Be it 30 years or 10. To be honest it didn't phase them one bit. All Mike said was well that your opinion- you can always vote NO.

Every other sentence almost was "the company wanted" "the company needed" "the company made it clear". Never in that 8 hours did we hear ONCE "WE made it clear" "We drew the line" We told them it was a non starter" Well, that's not true- they made that clear for the A.I.L. system. Drew that line in the sand like the Berlin Wall.

In the question and answers the entire thing was chaos because there was no chair of the meeting. It was a free for all with the Officers of AFA70 saying nothing or the VP screaming at people so they could not introduce motions.

The questions I got answered were:

They are planning on granting the West a bank sck system but the East must give up a claim to the West's Short Term Disability to get the equal amount of bank time granted. CONCESSION

In Pref Bid you better know how to do A LOT of generic bidding and be flexible as the only person that gets what they want is the most senior. Floor of 40 Ceiling of 90 (per Carol but later mentioned something about 110). You can only drop to 40 if the trip you are dropping doesn't throw the base over 3% open time for that period. If you don't hold anything it will assign you a trip(God knows what) to bring you to the min line value. LOTS OF HAIL MARY BIDDING!

On reserve you must complete your RAP even after receiving a FUTURE AWARD. Currently I am released until check in. CONCESSION

RAPS on RSV can change from month to month in a base.

They may extend your OPR shift from 4 hours to 6 at company discretion (under certain circumstances) CONCESSION

AFA only negotiated a 2 hour call out for Reserves instead of 3-4 like other airlines.

If you work into your Golden or Movable day for 1 hour or less because of irregular ops you are not granted the day back. They give you some convoluted formula of bread crumb pay. CONCESSION

If there are insufficient RSV coverage to cover a RAP, a reserve may be assigned to a RAP with less than 10 hrs between previous RAP (???)

A CSD program that the company wants on the cheap and eliminated bid positions while violating seniority. CONCESSION

5:15 min day

100% SCK

A reserve will not be allowed to split for Golden days off. They must choose a RAP. CONCESSION

John then told the few remaining people that were left he was not running again and transfering to CLT.


Well, this sounds almost verbatim of the CLT meeting Aug 31. But CA was not there.
Far too much time defending himself about rumors, an abundance of info about PBS vendors, all of the things you mentioned and this was BEFORE the horrid concessionary reserve section came out. True, these meetings are not official round-tables BUT it has to be clear by now to the negotiating committee and the LEC presidents that many of us feel we are not being represented. Some may complain about the reserves being annoying but US Airways reserves are better informed, more active (proactive) and not just complaining but also offering viable options to our negotiators. The negotiators though, chose not to listen. The reserves are the groundswell of change around here. The concession stand is closed. And locked. And cross-checked.
 
All of the sudden someone becomes silent. Hmmmm is it due to the FACTS that Beachboy posted from the meeting? :lol:
 
Question..What Exactly do you want? Just curious..You do know that we will NOT get Exactally what we want right? We will NEVER get back All that we gave up...You do know that right?

The only thing these people spreading misinformation and slandering their union reps is power. They don't understand the consequences of removing two hard working and knowledgeable people just at the most critical point in negotiations. They'd rather see the negotiators fail, then think they can "swoop in and save the day". Fantasyland stuff.

I have yet to see the name of one of these people even remotely qualified to do what Carol and Mike are doing.

If certain factions think that by creating dissent, they'll get their way, they're wrong. APFA over at American has been negotiating for two and a half years. They have an offer on the table from the company that doesn't bring them above 2003 pay, they can't get released from their mediator, and the members are unified. Just think how long it will take to get a blended contract that benefits the majority of the flight attendants when what the company sees from members i
s this circular firing squad.
 
Seriously, you joined the board today! What department do you work for? I have been lurking for a while but joined much earlier than today. AND I do have a Master's Degree and can comprehend compound sentences. I also want to see Carol and Mike recalled and will be one of those reserves who will be leaving if this contract is ratified. I am also a f/a who was told by two different passengers on my last trip that b/c of me they would fly US Airways again b/c of my customer service. I can make up my mind and don't need someone to tell me what to do. I will be voting NO!


So, is there a seniority list for posting on this forum? I've been hearing so much of this junk on the line it's disgusting. I'm talking about people who don't know squat about the contract spreading hate and lies about two people who are working as hard as they can. It all comes from the same people. So yeah. I'm posting now. The compound sentence thing? There ARE some things that can't BE explained with a simple "yes or no" answer.

The highly editorialized and personalized version of the meeting is not to be believed. There were at least two agitators at the meeting moving from seat to seat, whispering in people's ears and generally being disruptive, not allowing an orderly meeting to take place. Again, vicious rumors and personal attacks just degrade the whole process. All of you engaging in this behavior really should be ashamed.

If the reserves want any kind of support from more senior FAs, then learning to be civil would really be advisable. If we want a contract of any kind, we'd better get united. The meat and potatoes, you know, the things we may actually need to take a job action on are coming up. How seriously is the company going to take us, with squabbling over union positions going on?

Yes, the senior flight attendants have definitely paid our dues. So sue us. We still need a contract to benefit everyone.
 

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