Fleet Service apathy

[roabilly]

It doesnt matter if the TWU wins, you are still covered under the IAM CBA until a transition is negotiated.

My prediction is that this merger WILL take place… and it will take a year or more to shake out… you will see ups and downs… and at times it will look like it won’t happen. Remember, all of this will be posturing on the sides of the Creditors, Unions, and US Management.

Get behind… and STAY behind your Union Leadership through these difficult but exciting times. Stay informed, make sure you are a member in good standing so you can vote in any, and all upcoming elections. Your vote will be your ONLY say in these matters!

Stay informed… read these forums… read the AA/TWU forums talk to co-workers and educate them on what you learn. If there has ever been a time to support your Union… it is NOW!

 

[mike33]

My prediction is that this merger WILL take place… and it will take a year or more to shake out… you will see ups and downs… and at times it will look like it won’t happen. Remember, all of this will be posturing on the sides of the Creditors, Unions, and US Management.

Get behind… and STAY behind your Union Leadership through these difficult but exciting times. Stay informed, make sure you are a member in good standing so you can vote in any, and all upcoming elections. Your vote will be your ONLY say in these matters!

Stay informed… read these forums… read the AA/TWU forums talk to co-workers and educate them on what you learn. If there has ever been a time to support your Union… it is NOW!

AMEN BROTHER !!!!!

 

[ograc]

It doesnt matter if the TWU wins, you are still covered under the IAM CBA until a transition is negotiated.

Short term you right. Long term, it sounds as though the final offer on the table from AA is 13 stations. DP's proposal is speculated to be maybe a few more. IMO... long term translates to many jobs lost on both AA and US side. This DP proposal that is being kept under wraps has me worried. If it's so good why are they not releasing details?
ograc

 

[CMH_GSE]

There are likely legal reasons we don't have the PDF of the agreement to look at yet.
In BK there is a certain pecking order they need to follow and it would seem we( AA) will vote on their "last best" offer in a week or two.
There are lot of folks clamoring to see the US agreement before we vote on anything, not surehow that will work out.

 

[john john]

I am curious if anyone knows how many stations on the AA Fleet Service side are represented by the TWU. Additionally, a list of the stations represented. Before proposed wages for the remaining Fleet Service agents, with this proposed merger are considered, I believe we need to know this information. If this proposed merger goes through, and as a result the TWU wins representation rights for the remaining Fleet Service agents, this question needs to be brought to the light. For only those employees who remain "represented" will be entitled to the wage and job protection agreement. The agreement will be non applicable to the employees in non covered stations. IMO... herein lies the "synergies' of the proposed merger. The proposed wage increase, to those remaining represented, will be "cost neutral" to the company with the elimination of countless jobs (members on both sides) as they put the operational future of the two airlines together. IMO... this research has already been done, by US Airways and DP, before the proposal was presented to the AA unions. Does anyone have an authoritive answer to my first two questions? If so, it would be beneficial as we ponder this proposal.
ograc

How many stations on the US Fleet Service side are represented by the IAM

 

[wings396]

Short term you right. Long term, it sounds as though the final offer on the table from AA is 13 stations. DP's proposal is speculated to be maybe a few more. IMO... long term translates to many jobs lost on both AA and US side. This DP proposal that is being kept under wraps has me worried. If it's so good why are they not releasing details?
ograc

Honest question, how many more are left for US to lose?
Most are already gone...

 

[CMH_GSE]

The details that trickled out on the FA's agreement said that their early out was agreed to.
I will take a leap of faith and say that the TWU early out was likely agreed to as well.

This makes sense because that alone will account for several thousand jobs saved, with many retirements, it will open up jobs for many that would be otherwise laid off.

The early out that was proposed was a $75k buyout if you had at least 10yrs and were 55 or older.

Also, if you had 10 yrs and were 45-54 you could also get the $75k but would have to wait till 55 to get retirement and fly benefits.

That will purge 4 to 5 thousand folks because it also let them keep the current retiree medical and pensions if they go now.

There are 10553 fleet right now and a little over 10000 mechanics at AA.

My guess is Parker would have to extend that buyout to the US folks as well.
Just guessing here, but if you run the numbers it gets us close to the 6200 jobs saved over AA's original ask.

 

[mike33]

It doesnt matter if the TWU wins, you are still covered under the IAM CBA until a transition is negotiated.

Hmmmmmm !


" Operationally, our 32,000 team members continue to run an outstanding airline for our customers. Thanks to your efforts, we achieved our best-ever first quarter in completion factor, on-time arrivals and baggage handling. "

I wish i could feel more comfortable being part of that team 2 yrs from now.


Sign the damn LOA to the Allegheeny / Mohawk already !!!!!!!!!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Honest question, how many more are left for US to lose?
Most are already gone...

Wings, Not many!

We have to make sure that the US AIRWAYS group isn't horse traded. The IAM United Airline leadership that we have had since the beginning has consistently screwed over US AIRWAYS fleet service and continue to do so. Treating you guys like second best will not change when you are dealing with a President who treats his own like step children also. He has shown to be a pure management fraud who has nothing in his resume where he ever fought management on anything in his 4 years. Never mind how bad he did the Hawaiian members.

What the US AIRWAYS members will need is to make sure that the McCaskill Bond does NOT come into play. The only way that is possible is to obtain enough authorization cards from AMR workers to trigger an election, then MAKE SURE you have a president who doesn't horse trade when the INTL puts pressure. The AMR workers that I know at ORD are not too thrilled with the TWU so I think if the right people that know how to organize are in office, that it is very possible.

At any rate, if there isn't a representational election, then the McCaskill Bond will apply since the new FAA bill changed the threshold. The McCaskill Bond isn't the way to go since it will probably mean that the TWU contract will stack against your IAM contract due to its 'adverse affected' clause [presuming it isn't taken out in bankruptcy or that the IAM doesn't bridge it in your contract]. BUT IN ANY CASE, there would have to be a transition agreement to blend the two groups.

That's where myself and Delaney have HUGE contrasts. He opted into the weaker transition talks at United/CO merger without getting any considerations for his own members. A big fat ZERO PAY OR BENEFIT INCREASE because he bought into the company's plea that transition talks would 'accelerate' negotiations. That proved to be another management lie but the members are suffering and continue to suffer for his stupid action to walk out of UA talks into transition talks. Compare that with the IBT who went into transition talks at UA/CO ONLY after it told management that its members needed consideration to enter into transitions. That consideration came in the form of a $59 million enhancements. The AFA got a $40 million enhancement JUST TO ENTER transition talks. Delaney got ZERO.

You see,these are the facts that Roabily refuses to talk about as he intentionally grinds his ax in support of the establishment. If Roabily gets his way, the US AIRWAYS workers will NOT be getting any pay or benefit increases for YEARS IF we take the Delaney model from UA/CO.

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

 

[ChockJockey]

My guess is Parker would have to extend that buyout to the US folks as well.

Wow, the AM bag room in PHX would become real empty real fast... 😛h34r:

 

[pjirish317]

Wings, Not many!

We have to make sure that the US AIRWAYS group isn't horse traded. The IAM United Airline leadership that we have had since the beginning has consistently screwed over US AIRWAYS fleet service and continue to do so. Treating you guys like second best will not change when you are dealing with a President who treats his own like step children also. He has shown to be a pure management fraud who has nothing in his resume where he ever fought management on anything in his 4 years. Never mind how bad he did the Hawaiian members.

What the US AIRWAYS members will need is to make sure that the McCaskill Bond does NOT come into play. The only way that is possible is to obtain enough authorization cards from AMR workers to trigger an election, then MAKE SURE you have a president who doesn't horse trade when the INTL puts pressure. The AMR workers that I know at ORD are not too thrilled with the TWU so I think if the right people that know how to organize are in office, that it is very possible.

At any rate, if there isn't a representational election, then the McCaskill Bond will apply since the new FAA bill changed the threshold. The McCaskill Bond isn't the way to go since it will probably mean that the TWU contract will stack against your IAM contract due to its 'adverse affected' clause [presuming it isn't taken out in bankruptcy or that the IAM doesn't bridge it in your contract]. BUT IN ANY CASE, there would have to be a transition agreement to blend the two groups.

That's where myself and Delaney have HUGE contrasts. He opted into the weaker transition talks at United/CO merger without getting any considerations for his own members. A big fat ZERO PAY OR BENEFIT INCREASE because he bought into the company's plea that transition talks would 'accelerate' negotiations. That proved to be another management lie but the members are suffering and continue to suffer for his stupid action to walk out of UA talks into transition talks. Compare that with the IBT who went into transition talks at UA/CO ONLY after it told management that its members needed consideration to enter into transitions. That consideration came in the form of a $59 million enhancements. The AFA got a $40 million enhancement JUST TO ENTER transition talks. Delaney got ZERO.

You see,these are the facts that Roabily refuses to talk about as he intentionally grinds his ax in support of the establishment. If Roabily gets his way, the US AIRWAYS workers will NOT be getting any pay or benefit increases for YEARS IF we take the Delaney model from UA/CO. Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim,

And if you get your way, you will burn US fleet down right along with you. You have no clue how to be a PDGC. You are an orginizer, a BS artist, a traveling salesman (no offense to the traveling salesmen/women) if you will. You are an angry, hateful, spiteful person with an axe to grind because someone didn't like your ideas, or didn't like they way you conducted yourself, or for any number of other reasons. Do you honestly think that US would have done anything different in this situation had you been PDGC? I doubt it. You could not have changed one thing. It would have/will play out the same regardless. You are trying to divide this group, and right now that is the last thing we need. I hope everybody that is running on the occupy ticket realizes what they are getting into with you. Because, god forbid, you actually pull this off and become PDGC, all those that ran with you better hope they dont piss you off. You will turn on them just like you did to ALL, of the ND people. Because that's what happens when you disagree, speak against, or have your own thought process that doesn't coincide with Tim Nelson, you are dropped like a hot potato, and shunned for life. I wish I could predict the future like you can Tim, with what, according to you, IS going to happen to US Fleet. I wouldn't need to be where I am. I truely feel sorry for you. Filled with so much hate aginast people, most of which had nothing to do with your current situation and hate towards certain people, that you probably will never be able to "un-burn" those bridges, EVER. And all because you didn't get you way. Truely SAD.

 

[roabilly]

Tim,

And if you get your way, you will burn US fleet down right along with you. You have no clue how to be a PDGC. You are an orginizer, a BS artist, a traveling salesman (no offense to the traveling salesmen/women) if you will. You are an angry, hateful, spiteful person with an axe to grind because someone didn't like your ideas, or didn't like they way you conducted yourself, or for any number of other reasons. Do you honestly think that US would have done anything different in this situation had you been PDGC? I doubt it. You could not have changed one thing. It would have/will play out the same regardless. You are trying to divide this group, and right now that is the last thing we need. I hope everybody that is running on the occupy ticket realizes what they are getting into with you. Because, god forbid, you actually pull this off and become PDGC, all those that ran with you better hope they dont piss you off. You will turn on them just like you did to ALL, of the ND people. Because that's what happens when you disagree, speak against, or have your own thought process that doesn't coincide with Tim Nelson, you are dropped like a hot potato, and shunned for life. I wish I could predict the future like you can Tim, with what, according to you, IS going to happen to US Fleet. I wouldn't need to be where I am. I truely feel sorry for you. Filled with so much hate aginast people, most of which had nothing to do with your current situation and hate towards certain people, that you probably will never be able to "un-burn" those bridges, EVER. And all because you didn't get you way. Truely SAD.

Well PJ...

I was going to write a response to Tim's post... but you said it ALL better than I could have... so... I'll second your motion... all in favor say yay...

 

[mike33]

Well PJ...

I was going to write a response to Tim's post... but you said it ALL better than I could have... so... I'll second your motion... all in favor say yay...

AYE !!!!!

Seems the Occupy is very disruptive. I don't disagree with all of their platform but there is a time and place for everything. Sorry but this is not the time for them. More Solidarity Less Occupy!



"You cannot put the same shoe on every foot." ~Pablilius Syrus

 

[wings396]

Wow, the AM bag room in PHX would become real empty real fast... 😛h34r:

On the surface a buyout sounds like a good idea, but then you need to examine your options very closely. If you are very close to retiring anyway, it's probably not a bad deal to mull over. If you are only in the 55-60 range, it's only going to be worth thinking about if you have other means for medical coverage. If you don't, chances are you will end up working elsewhere for medical, or paying thru the nose to get your own. Leaving one job for another at this point in your life may not be worth it. It's doubtful that you will end up working somewhere that enables you to trade shifts etc, so you will be stuck somewhere on a PM shift 5 days a week....

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

And if you get your way, you will burn US fleet down right along with you. You have no clue how to be a PDGC. You are an orginizer, a BS artist, a traveling salesman (no offense to the traveling salesmen/women) if you will. You are an angry, hateful, spiteful person with an axe to grind because someone didn't like your ideas, or didn't like they way you conducted yourself, or for any number of other reasons. Do you honestly think that US would have done anything different in this situation had you been PDGC? I doubt it. You could not have changed one thing. It would have/will play out the same regardless. You are trying to divide this group, and right now that is the last thing we need. I hope everybody that is running on the occupy ticket realizes what they are getting into with you. Because, god forbid, you actually pull this off and become PDGC, all those that ran with you better hope they dont piss you off. You will turn on them just like you did to ALL, of the ND people. Because that's what happens when you disagree, speak against, or have your own thought process that doesn't coincide with Tim Nelson, you are dropped like a hot potato, and shunned for life. I wish I could predict the future like you can Tim, with what, according to you, IS going to happen to US Fleet. I wouldn't need to be where I am. I truely feel sorry for you. Filled with so much hate aginast people, most of which had nothing to do with your current situation and hate towards certain people, that you probably will never be able to "un-burn" those bridges, EVER. And all because you didn't get you way. Truely SAD.

PJ,

I don't hate anyone. And it isn't just me. CLT, PHL, and PHX all denied Delaney his nomination. PJ, just because myself and the US AIRWAYS hubs have decided not to continue endorsing Delaney and the New Direction doesn't mean we are evil. The New Direction proved itself to be incapable and no candidate is entitled to my vote or the vote of anyone just because myself and others supported a particular candidate 4 years ago.

And it makes no sense to continue with a President who decided paying part timers half of full time and having Hawaiian members pay for their parking; and throwing his own UA/CO members under the bus by supporting management into transition talks. PJ, how about instead of ragging on me, how about defending the actions of Delaney at Hawaiian and how he screwed up the merger talks at UA. Try producing an argument about why Delaney's actions are a compelling reason to vote for him instead of spewing your hate about how I'm a jackoff.

BTW, Delaney gave me the Certification of Appreciation for my outstanding service and commitment to District 141 in 2009 at the Local Chairman's conference. In 2010, I reinvented organizing and changed the IAM into a union that lost 80,000 members and about 10 elections in a row, into winners. And, when I announced that I could no longer support Delaney, him, you, and the ND supporters promptly announced me as an ####, hater, etc.

When I announced my presidency, Roabily took my word for things, as he said in a post, and he liked my ideas....until he obviously got a phone call. Then I went from someone who he could take my word for, to a traveling salesman who is a BS er. Amazing how politics work isn't it? Go from Solid and award winner, to a BS prick after an announcement. But, hey, that comes with campaigning and I understand.

Nonetheless, when I was Directing the Organizing department, I did exactly what I said I was going to do and I built this membership. That is not division my friend. And running for office is not division either. It's called Democracy and that has an ugly face but it is worth it!

Onward!

www.occupyiam141.com