Fleet Service apathy

[Tim Nelson]

I have another question for Tim...

Why are you so focused on campaigning on Facebook... could it be your audience is a little less knowledgeable, and more willing to gobble up your preposterous rhetoric on that site?

Roabily,

Actually, I am the only one out front discussing anything with the masses. Why would you count it as a negative, me campaigning anywhere when my opponents don't? Myself and others find facebook more credible since folks use their real names instead of hiding behind things. Roabily, I know who you are and you did good work for the District for your professional services, but few know who you are on here. I'd encourage you to visit and join our facebook site.

I'm focused on campaigning everywhere though. Including here, facebook, youtube, and in the actual breakrooms. The message is one that is strong so I want it to be heard everywhere. And it's paying off. We gained the trust of all 3 US AIRWAYS hubs and we secured 25% more vote at the two biggest United hubs than the ND in a very tough nominating format. In June, I don't see any reason why we can't really pull away from the ND in their biggest hubs, including ORD. Remember, even at ORD, we got some of our team nominations and I think we have a very good chance to close ORD out and get the majority of votes there. Things are moving and it's a very exciting time.

www.occoupyiam141.com

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You just stated to me that an attorney would handle ALL step 3 hearings. If that is in fact the case, why have
AGC's at all? And how will this attorney travel to all the stations to handle the step 3 hearings? Who pays for the travel? You are doing a great job of fighting the battles for your ticket, but all that shows us is that they think what YOU want them to think, do what YOU want them to do, say what YOU want them to say, because you have proven that if it's not Tim's way it's the highway. Good to see a backbone in your ticket, NOT. You spin everything to your own advantage, and I know I see through it, and I will try to open the eyes of others that have been blinded by your rhetoric. Oh and BTW, i have not asked for the ND's qualifications, I asked for your ticket's qualifications. Why is it so hard to have your AGC canidates tell their experience? Oh, never mind you will just answer for them anyway. But it must make you all warm and fuzzy inside to be the puppet master of your ticket. Did you have them sign a "commitment letter" to have you speak for them?

On another note Tim. Who was on the HA negotiating committee, and who ultimately agreed that the CBA that was negotiated was acceptable to the workers at HA? Were there any US people negotiating that CBA? How about the UA/CO negotiating committee? Are there any US people there? And who will ultimately have the final say, could it be the workers that decide if a good job was done negotiating, and if the terms negotiated are acceptable or not?

Item 1: AGC's are going to be handling all step 3 hearings with the assistance of a professional. Why would you not be grateful for that? Any fair minded person would see this as a win win, when compared to the present situation. PJ, I think me and you have a different perspective on what an AGC should be doing and what we are paying them for. I don't think we reduce them down to glorified Local chairman like you seem to imply, i.e., focusing on AGC work as almost solely doing step 3's. As you know, step 3's are basically step 2's piled higher and deeper. The Occupy 141 AGC's will still be handling step 3's but they will also be responsible for walking the breakrooms, sitting in the breakrooms, listening to the masses and building and supporting the shop stewards, committees, etc. And that is SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE NOT DOING!!! Essentially, for the first time, our AGC's will be engaged with the masses and develop relationships with them. If they had relationships with the masses now, then PHL, CLT, and PHX wouldn't have supported me would they? Honestly, if the AGC's had even the slightest relationship with thier members, then I wouldn't have been able to secure each and every hub at US AIRWAYS. Bottom line. I don't plan on being a one and done president so, not only the AGC's, but also MYSELF, my office will be my laptop and I will be on the road with the masses, listening to their grievances and cries and engaging with them. Gone will be the days of having a president/AGC that sits in his office and goes home at 5pm. When I was in CLT for their nomination, several of the CLT members came up to me and told me 'thanks for coming' then they proceeded to tell me how Delaney betrayed their trust and only came twice to the Local, both times on election day.

Item 2: Hawaiian airline negotiations. I am not surprised that you and other Delaney supporters try to say that somehow Delaney didn't negotiate or have anything to do with the terrible Hawaiian airline contract. Your position is unfounded since his name is contained on the contract. Secondly, being in the District, I happened to know that Delaney was on conference calls and side bars with Hawaiian management numorous times. And the same is true with UA/CO and US AIRWAYS. PJ, you can say all day that Delaney wasn't responsible for the terrible contract but fair minded persons will realize that Delaney was ultimately responsible and was totally engaged in the contract since he was president of the union. At any rate, for those US AIRWAYS workers who want to reference Delaney's work, before you allow him to have it at for 4 years with your contract, make sure you reference the Hawaiian contract and his disasterous job with the UA/CO contract.

Item 3: PJ, I don't live on the campaign trail. I do have a life that I love very much. plus I have to work 8 hours a day. At any rate, I think any fair minded person would give me space and appreciate my willingness to engage with you, opposers, and supporters as I make myself available to everyone, unlike my opponents.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

i am assuming the 75 percent vote on the ratification should resign also?


Hmmmmm!

Shouldn't the membership have sent it back if they didn't like it?

The membership has to take partial blame but, as we have constantly seen, the District leadership will beat down a membership until it gets its deal passed. In the Hawaiian case, the members were furious and rejected a contract but then it came right back at them, and human nature took over, the membership got beaten. And I don't think anyone working in HNL likes the idea of only topping out at $19 and change. With some part timers topping out at $10. That contract is a contract that resembles a 'migrant worker' cheap labor contract. Only with Delaney, only with Delaney.

The contract itself sucks and I think all can agree to that. The contract is witness to Delaney and his work. Part time getting paid half. Anti union ready reserve. 45% part time caps with more on top of that. He even let management pinch him on paid parking.

Therefore, those that support Delaney must necesssarily blame the membership. I blame the leadership because everything rises and falls on it.

Onward!

 

[saywhat]

Item 1: AGC's are going to be handling all step 3 hearings with the assistance of a professional. Why would you not be grateful for that? Any fair minded person would see this as a win win, when compared to the present situation. PJ, I think me and you have a different perspective on what an AGC should be doing and what we are paying them for. I don't think we reduce them down to glorified Local chairman like you seem to imply, i.e., focusing on AGC work as almost solely doing step 3's. As you know, step 3's are basically step 2's piled higher and deeper. The Occupy 141 AGC's will still be handling step 3's but they will also be responsible for walking the breakrooms, sitting in the breakrooms, listening to the masses and building and supporting the shop stewards, committees, etc. And that is SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE NOT DOING!!! Essentially, for the first time, our AGC's will be engaged with the masses and develop relationships with them. If they had relationships with the masses now, then PHL, CLT, and PHX wouldn't have supported me would they? Honestly, if the AGC's had even the slightest relationship with thier members, then I wouldn't have been able to secure each and every hub at US AIRWAYS. Bottom line. I don't plan on being a one and done president so, not only the AGC's, but also MYSELF, my office will be my laptop and I will be on the road with the masses, listening to their grievances and cries and engaging with them. Gone will be the days of having a president/AGC that sits in his office and goes home at 5pm. When I was in CLT for their nomination, several of the CLT members came up to me and told me 'thanks for coming' then they proceeded to tell me how Delaney betrayed their trust and only came twice to the Local, both times on election day.

Item 2: Hawaiian airline negotiations. I am not surprised that you and other Delaney supporters try to say that somehow Delaney didn't negotiate or have anything to do with the terrible Hawaiian airline contract. Your position is unfounded since his name is contained on the contract. Secondly, being in the District, I happened to know that Delaney was on conference calls and side bars with Hawaiian management numorous times. And the same is true with UA/CO and US AIRWAYS. PJ, you can say all day that Delaney wasn't responsible for the terrible contract but fair minded persons will realize that Delaney was ultimately responsible and was totally engaged in the contract since he was president of the union. At any rate, for those US AIRWAYS workers who want to reference Delaney's work, before you allow him to have it at for 4 years with your contract, make sure you reference the Hawaiian contract and his disasterous job with the UA/CO contract.

Onward!

Tim,

You claim you are on the road all the time but that because you were in the district that you know RD was on conference calls and side bars with HA management numerous times. Tim, every time you post you become less credible. Which is it, on the road or in the office spying on RD? Get real.

 

[roabilly]

Mike, I've been on this forum for several years. I've rarely posted until this year. What I have noticed over the years and you can see it today. Look at stats. Right under airlines look at stats and posts. The numbers. USAirways has more than any other airline. Compare to UA or AA or DL. Not even close. Now they surely have more employees. That being said this forum is not the only source for airline employees to vent. As for a split vote. Not sure I know what you mean. Who is splitting?

Mr. Niblet,

I’m sure that you have witnessed some of the more questionable, and ambiguous motives related to the platform of the occupy agenda. Don’t you think it’s time to do the right thing, and withdraw yourself from this campaign?

You seem to be sincere and intelligent… you owe it to the Membership to represent their best interest. Further, it is obvious from everything we have exposed here in this forum over the last few weeks, that this idea of Tim’s will NOT represent the best interest of this Membership no matter how you spin it… or attempt to sell it.

I’m calling on you to do the right thing…

 

[700UW]

Funny how he has ignored all the courses and training the AGCs, GCs and GLRs get, wonder how he is going to try and spin this?

Also I wonder how he is going to all these cities.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

You claim you are on the road all the time but that because you were in the district that you know RD was on conference calls and side bars with HA management numerous times. Tim, every time you post you become less credible. Which is it, on the road or in the office spying on RD? Get real.

Why would you presume that I was on the road for 365 days? Don't give me that much credit! I do have a family and I did spend time in the office strategizing and planning organizing campaigns????

Cripes, I'm not superman!

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Mr. Niblet,

I’m sure that you have witnessed some of the more questionable, and ambiguous motives related to the platform of the occupy agenda. Don’t you think it’s time to do the right thing, and withdraw yourself from this campaign?

You seem to be sincere and intelligent… you owe it to the Membership to represent their best interest. Further, it is obvious from everything we have exposed here in this forum over the last few weeks, that this idea of Tim’s will NOT represent the best interest of this Membership no matter how you spin it… or attempt to sell it.

I’m calling on you to do the right thing…

Roabily,

Lol

There is nothing questionable about diversity, having an attorney in negotiations and arbitration. Sacrificing money to payback to the membership in education. having more US AIRWAYS AGC's. Empowering the membership with the ability to vote on LOA. It's everything the membership should already have.

Unfortunately, Delaney has 23 full time paid spots and decided to refuse to have any african americans [50% of our membership] on his ballot in those spots. Even stepped over two VP's who were people of color. Him and his AGC's insist that they are "Perry Masonlike" and don't need an attorney because they "Got this". And, gone will be the days of having a president sign secret deals agreeing to support management lockouts. Never mind that Delaney's work is his witness and that his Hawaiian airline and UA/CO negotiations became nightmares. Essentially, what has the ND done in 4 years Roabily other than screw things up in negotiations at various properties and give management leverage? Has Delaney even cracked the doors of the CLT Local ONCE in the last 4 years?

The masses understand this and that is why Occupy 141 got 25% more of the vote than the ND at the two largest United Hubs. And also secured and blocked all 3 US AIRWAYS hubs. Alot of hard work though and time will tell.

Visit our website and stay informed: www.occupyiam141.com

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

goodfellow Posted 26 May 2008 - 11:04 PM

Senior


Group:Registered Member
Posts:255
Joined:01-May 08
Once again, Attention all fleet service in CLT, Rich Delaney and TEAM ND08 will be in your HUB TUESDAY MAY 27th. They care about the membership and will be available to answer and listen to your needs! They know most of your concerns because they are more like you than the DO NOTHING'S that only come around during ELECTION'S!!!!!! This team (ND08) will also be around for the membership Alway's! Win or Lose these people are dedicated to doing what is right for the membership(their past is proven about what they stand for, that my friends you can take to the BANK!)!!!!! THANK YOU FOR VOTING IN JUNE!!!!!!!


As many on this forum know, the above poster is an AGC. Well, has Rich been to a CLT Local meeting at all in 4 years? Just one? Alas, I betcha you all see him in June for elections! So much for the remarks of the poster above claiming that Delaney is different than the DO NOTHINGs that only come around during elections. Sheesh!

Onward!

 

[roabilly]

Tim...

Why haven't you conceded to being wrong about the AGC training? You will do more for your credibility by admitting you intentionally mislead and dodged the issue than you will by posting "Red herrings", manifestos, and unrelated responses. I'm asking you to MAN-UP... it takes a real man to admit he's been busted... there is still time for damage control... I'm sure Jester will help you out in that regard...

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Why haven't you conceded to being wrong about the AGC training? You will do more for your credibility by admitting you intentionally mislead and dodged the issue than you will by posting "Red herrings", manifestos, and unrelated responses. I'm asking you to MAN-UP... it takes a real man to admit he's been busted... there is still time for damage control... I'm sure Jester will help you out in that regard...

I"m still waiting for you to please post all his 'speical training' that MF has apparently had over his 1.5 years as an AGC. When you do, I'll address it. I didn't ask for someone to post all the possible coursework in the catalog. Get every course that MF has been at and post it. Then I will address it. And, btw, even if he went through the entire catalog of coursework in record fashion over his 1.5 years in office, is it still enough to place him across the table from a Corporate attorney? I think you will lose any argument that makes MF fully qualified to negotiate against a Corporate attorney. Ditto for me. Cripes, I have more education than any of them and that makes me realize that I need even more and also need to surround myself with interdisciplinary professionals. Sorry Roabily, but a few participation certificates at Placid Harbor may puff up an AGC's head to think that he is the next Perry Mason and can match up in a battle of wit with a Corporate attorney who usually have 10+ years of formal education, but there is a reason why 2% doesn't really mean 2% in your contract!

Onward!

 

[saywhat]

I"m still waiting for you to please post all his 'speical training' that MF has apparently had over his 1.5 years as an AGC. When you do, I'll address it. I didn't ask for someone to post all the possible coursework in the catalog. Get every course that MF has been at and post it. Then I will address it. And, btw, even if he went through the entire catalog of coursework in record fashion over his 1.5 years in office, is it still enough to place him across the table from a Corporate attorney? I think you will lose any argument that makes MF fully qualified to negotiate against a Corporate attorney. Ditto for me. Cripes, I have more education than any of them and that makes me realize that I need even more and also need to surround myself with interdisciplinary professionals. Sorry Roabily, but a few participation certificates at Placid Harbor may puff up an AGC's head to think that he is the next Perry Mason and can match up in a battle of wit with a Corporate attorney who usually have 10+ years of formal education, but there is a reason why 2% doesn't really mean 2% in your contract!

Onward!

Tim,

Again with the 2% which has already been discussed over and over again but you continue to deceive the membership by bringing it up. Get real.

Scenario for you: If you win and in 2013 have 100 terminations systemwide and your in house lawyer tells you 2 are worth pursuing and 98 should be thrown out, what do you do?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim...

Why haven't you conceded to being wrong about the AGC training? You will do more for your credibility by admitting you intentionally mislead and dodged the issue than you will by posting "Red herrings", manifestos, and unrelated responses. I'm asking you to MAN-UP... it takes a real man to admit he's been busted... there is still time for damage control... I'm sure Jester will help you out in that regard...

Hey Roabily,

Let me just make this easy for you, k? Let's say that in MF's 1.5 years as an AGC that he went to all 25 of the classes contained in the catolog at the IAM and that he received their participation certificates after the few day sessions, and let's say that he absolutely "Aced" each course. Then compare that to Erin Borg, the US AIRWAYS corporate attorney who sits across from MF for the company. I know the IAM school of "Perry Mason's" make sure that our AGC's are all philadelphia attorneys who "Can take care of it" at the table. Poor Erin only went to one of the top Law schools in the nation, i.e., Arizona Law, which ranks only in the top half of the US News and World Report. Check here

Roabily, it's time to put down your kool-aid and admit the obvious that the company has attorneys working hard on their side of the negotiations table, and so should we. Other unions have attorneys in negotiations also and it just makes 'good sense' to do so. The real radical thing is that Delaney and IAM 141 doesn't have attorneys present because "They Gotz this". Maybe Delaney can continue to negotiate contracts where our members have to pay for parking like he did at Hawaiian and where part timers make half of full time. Or maybe Delaney can 'botch' up merger negotiations like he did at UA/CO as he failed to understand the leverage he gave up when he supported management into transition talks for another 3-5 years, after voiding out previous talks for the previous 3 years.



Onward!

 

[Jester]

Funny how he has ignored all the courses and training the AGCs, GCs and GLRs get, wonder how he is going to try and spin this?

Also I wonder how he is going to all these cities.

I swear... I just reviewed the "course work" and frankly, I can see why Management kicks our collective butts in grievances in most cases. You think a one week class in labor law suddenly makes one equal to a labor attorney with 3 years of law school, the passing the state bar exam and probably more than a decade of experience? Take every labor related class, and you might have the equivalent of a couple college semesters of labor law and labor economics, if one figures that a typical semester last about 18 weeks, and couple of semesters about 36 weeks or 36 classes of training? The training might equal that of a college sophomore, and that's probably being generous... do you want your job dependant upon a marginally qualified person as your representative? I am sure that it is better than nothing, but I say it again... "We Deserve Better."

I don't need to "spin" the lack of training and qualifications for the Weedwhacker Labor Relations training center, it simply is not adequate when we are speaking about members' liveihood.

So Conveys Jester.

 

[pjirish317]

"I actually can't speak for everyone, and you made it the issue by implying that the "east" wanted to hold the "west" hostage. But whatever." -- PJ
Again... more intellectual dishonesty... I never said "hostage" or even implied the word. In fact, "hostage" would be too kind, as it was more of indifference, right, "Brother"?

"And I voted the way I did because of the outsourcing language, not for better pay, if you must know. And why is it/was it my fault that your pay was the way it was at AWA? Was it not the fault of the Tyranical majority that voted yes to your TWU cba? But wahtever helps you sleep at night." --PJ
You continue to prove my point... you are making a decent wage, so screw West, they can wait, right, "Brother"? As for the TWU it was a first step, first agreement, and now that we were one big happy fleet, we should be paid the same, right, "Brother"?

"And the second T/A was worst than the first. And really at this point it is a non issue if there was/was not going to be any more negotiations. We will never know because the MAJORITY voted to accept it. Done deal." -- PJ
Gloss over all you want, but Boss Canale had no interest in going back a 3rd time and when the 2008 recession hit the airlines hard, do you think the Tempe Boys would have been willing to be as generous in the years that followed? So let's ignore the facts and intellectually punt the argumentative football as "we will never know," and pretend you really cared about the state of the West, right, "Brother"?

"What would I have to answer for come election time may I ask?" -- PJ
Maybe your continued blind obedience to the indefensible and your willingness to sell-out the Membership, right, "Brother"?

So Mocks Jester.

Jester,

You say I voted to keep the west from making a "decent" wage, I say you voted to sell out the smaller stations for a few pieces of silver. Neither one of us is willing to change our minds. It's over and has been for some time. You must hold alot of anger inside to be this bitter about something that happened 4 years ago.