IAM Fleet Service thread 7/13-7/20

[Jester]

I am sure the soon to be furloughed west LAS workers are enjoying their 20% raise too. Oh that's right ,they are not going to be around to get it.

And again... the TWU contract would not have provided one bit of difference if you review what I posted, "T/A approval or not the furloughs were coming to LAS and throughout the system. These cutbacks are due to primarily the price of fuel not to the price of labor." Let me spell it instead of just spotting you the first two letters... C-M-H.

Those who made the cut are surely enjoying their 20% raises along with the additional 20% in a few months, as for those who didn't make the cut, at least, then did get some raise as their termination was a foregone conclusion with $140 barrel oil.

So Refers Jester.

 

[Jester]

You are correct when you state that CMH was cut and our TWU language didn't protect them. However, the TWU language would have protected the 18 stations from being outsourced come 2012 as long as the city stayed open. That is what the east guys have tried to preach. No language in any contract would allow employees to be on a payroll with no flight activity.

P. Rez

Mr. Rez,

Am I not correct to understand that West employees were handling regional jet aircraft almost exclusively in many of those 18 stations? The point of my question would be that there would be no job protections if this was the case as the TWU contract only protected if mainline jets were used. It was a situation whereby it was convenient and cost effective for management. If the station does become an all regional jet station, then the T/A does provide some protections for a few years.

Furthermore, if there are mainline jets being used in some capacity what is the average number of mainline flights per week in order to avoid being Swissported? Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact number, but from what I recall, it was a fair marginal number if figured on a daily basis.

The discussion in reality revolves around the use of RJ's within the fleet and in the future. The dream of RJ's crisscrossing the nation in a massive web of point-to-point service is over given the much higher CASM with $4/gallon Jet-A fuel. Once the Mesa/Freedom Air contract expires there will be massive cuts in RJ flying which may open the possibility of more mainline jets, but with less frequencies to smaller stations.

So Considers Jester.

 

[robbedagain]

well gf you know that is what is going to happen given the state of crisis our economic is in. Dont stop to think for a moment this airline is not about to abide by the contract. I know a buddy of mine in RDU who should be making more than what he has, but yet the outfit wont give him his full pay stating that he is still under the 60 day rule, which is not true. He has been in RDU since April and prior to that he worked in CLT for a year. theres no way the company is going to sit by and wait til 2011 to close them cities. we on the east have been there and done it. we know first hand how the outfit operates and it aint pretty

 

[giantfan]

well gf you know that is what is going to happen given the state of crisis our economic is in. Dont stop to think for a moment this airline is not about to abide by the contract. I know a buddy of mine in RDU who should be making more than what he has, but yet the outfit wont give him his full pay stating that he is still under the 60 day rule, which is not true. He has been in RDU since April and prior to that he worked in CLT for a year. theres no way the company is going to sit by and wait til 2011 to close them cities. we on the east have been there and done it. we know first hand how the outfit operates and it aint pretty

robbed....I am somewhat familar with how this co operates on the east....I've been on the east for 30 years....

 

[freedom]

specifically WHERE was I wrong about the contract. Please be specific. Does it really matter if your in a recession or not when YOU DON'T HAVE A JOB.... the company would have come back to the table. but we will
now never know. SO please explain where I WAS WRONG ABOUT THE B/S T/A..

The company would NOT have come back to the table ... do you not remember the very first TA ????? how much time did we spend fighting the company , and then we ended up with almost the same identical TA the second time ???? no how no way would the company and the union have brought back anything to the table that YOU would have given a green light on ...


No o man , you would have dragged this out to strike time , only to find out that the us economy and the airline industry were in the gutter ... and then , then we would have all been screwed because of your short sighted thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[P. REZ]

Jester,

Mr. Rez,

Am I not correct to understand that West employees were handling regional jet aircraft almost exclusively in many of those 18 stations? The point of my question would be that there would be no job protections if this was the case as the TWU contract only protected if mainline jets were used. It was a situation whereby it was convenient and cost effective for management. If the station does become an all regional jet station, then the T/A does provide some protections for a few years.

Furthermore, if there are mainline jets being used in some capacity what is the average number of mainline flights per week in order to avoid being Swissported? Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact number, but from what I recall, it was a fair marginal number if figured on a daily basis.

The discussion in reality revolves around the use of RJ's within the fleet and in the future. The dream of RJ's crisscrossing the nation in a massive web of point-to-point service is over given the much higher CASM with $4/gallon Jet-A fuel. Once the Mesa/Freedom Air contract expires there will be massive cuts in RJ flying which may open the possibility of more mainline jets, but with less frequencies to smaller stations.

So Considers Jester

Section 1. E. 1. (d) "the company may contract out work as part of the implementation of an alliance, affiliation or other marketing arrangement with another entity."


However, Section 1. E. 1. (e) states "The company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement."

About 4 stations had only RJ service but all of our stations had protections based on the above quoted language. As long as the station continued to stay open we would have TWU fleet employees there.


P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

The company would NOT have come back to the table ... do you not remember the very first TA ????? how much time did we spend fighting the company , and then we ended up with almost the same identical TA the second time ???? no how no way would the company and the union have brought back anything to the table that YOU would have given a green light on ...


No o man , you would have dragged this out to strike time , only to find out that the us economy and the airline industry were in the gutter ... and then , then we would have all been screwed because of your short sighted thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At this point it doesn't matter. You have a new contract and it is what it is. At any rate, I tend to agree with those that your company will be back....soon enough. When it does come back it will learn why the masses kicked Parker's boy to the curb.

The mandate is clear, the masses don't want anymore concessions at all. Canale guaranteed them he would honor that and then let the flood gates in.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jester,

Mr. Rez,

Am I not correct to understand that West employees were handling regional jet aircraft almost exclusively in many of those 18 stations? The point of my question would be that there would be no job protections if this was the case as the TWU contract only protected if mainline jets were used. It was a situation whereby it was convenient and cost effective for management. If the station does become an all regional jet station, then the T/A does provide some protections for a few years.

Furthermore, if there are mainline jets being used in some capacity what is the average number of mainline flights per week in order to avoid being Swissported? Unfortunately, I do not recall the exact number, but from what I recall, it was a fair marginal number if figured on a daily basis.

The discussion in reality revolves around the use of RJ's within the fleet and in the future. The dream of RJ's crisscrossing the nation in a massive web of point-to-point service is over given the much higher CASM with $4/gallon Jet-A fuel. Once the Mesa/Freedom Air contract expires there will be massive cuts in RJ flying which may open the possibility of more mainline jets, but with less frequencies to smaller stations.

So Considers Jester

Section 1. E. 1. (d) "the company may contract out work as part of the implementation of an alliance, affiliation or other marketing arrangement with another entity."


However, Section 1. E. 1. (e) states "The company shall not, however, contract out work if such contracting out would result in a reduction in force/furlough for any employee covered by this Agreement."

About 4 stations had only RJ service but all of our stations had protections based on the above quoted language. As long as the station continued to stay open we would have TWU fleet employees there.


P. Rez

P Rez,
3 PHX folks, IMO, need to run for committee to get more pariticipation from PHX.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[P. REZ]

Tim,


P Rez,
3 PHX folks, IMO, need to run for committee to get more pariticipation from PHX.


I am being told by RR that this election will be held in November. Could you explain the process and timelines? I do plan on running. I am tired of what is currently not happening in PHX.


P. Rez

 

[brownie]

The company would NOT have come back to the table if this past T/A was turned down. Period. Not with the economic circumstances we are currently in and especially with the UA deal dead. No way, No how. We would still be in BK wages for God knows how much longer.

Passing this T/A as sh$tty as it was, was the RIGHT thing to do. Especially for the west and the class II stations.

Let's just hope we stay in business long enough to eventually get something better down the road...or just stay in business!!! GF

Hey speak for yourself, This westie is not seeing anything good out of this sh$itty contract !

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,


P Rez,
3 PHX folks, IMO, need to run for committee to get more pariticipation from PHX.


I am being told by RR that this election will be held in November. Could you explain the process and timelines? I do plan on running. I am tired of what is currently not happening in PHX.


P. Rez

You'll have to check with your bylaws as ones eligibilty is most likely tied to attending a certain amount of meetings. probably need to be nominated in September or October for a November election. RR has shown that his leadership has been incapable of producing the kind of participaton that the New Direction needs in PHX to increase our solidarity. I'm not saying folks need to agree on everything or that those should take it personally if there is disagreement. What I'm saying is that whether there is agreement or not, there HAS to be participation.

I think BOS is a fine example. Although nobody on BOS US AIRWAYS has me on their Christmas card list, leadership is there and BOS is a solid union station for both United and
US AIRWAYS.
BOS US AIRWAYS supported Canale and disagreed with the idea of change, however BOS participates and has a leadership structure that is 'useful' in understanding concepts of unionism and solidarity. That's where I think PHX needs to be. There needs to be some strong union leaders there that have the communication and leadership skills needed to make PHX a participatory local. IMO, it's pitiful that PHX can only produce 70 votes out of 1450 [United, US AIRWAYS east, US AIRWAYS west]. Although I don't know, i would say that United's small contingent probably made up almost half of those votes. At any rate, what is shown is that the current leadership is incapable of building ownership with the PHX masses and thereby there is zippo participation. Something has to change. Any new leadership there doesn't have to be someone that has to kiss the New Directin's arse, but the new leadership MUST be someone that have the leadership skills and wisdom to get members to participate. Once members participate, the union will be stronger.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[freedom]

If this union dues increase can be stopped with greater numbers in some sort of vote , then we will come out in greater numbers … until then I’d have to say that overall we don’t much care about the union going on’s …. Our company is in the process of dying right now , union issues are on the back burner for all intents and purposes …

As far as leadership goes , Ron’s still doing a fantastic job .

 

[Hadenough]

Try to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

 

[Garfield]

If this union dues increase can be stopped with greater numbers in some sort of vote , then we will come out in greater numbers … until then I’d have to say that overall we don’t much care about the union going on’s …. Our company is in the process of dying right now , union issues are on the back burner for all intents and purposes …

As far as leadership goes , Ron’s still doing a fantastic job .

what a stupid statement, not that it's a surprise considering the source

 

[freedom]

what a stupid statement, not that it's a surprise considering the source

Gee , I was smart enough to be on the winning side wasn’t I ? hmmmmmm