What's new

IAM FLEET SERVICE

Status
Not open for further replies.
I was just wondering at what dollar figure does "dignity and respect" kick in?
Ok there are two answers to this question. Its something each and everyone of us need to ask ourselves. We need to be thinking about this already and we need to get our co-workers thinking about it. How much will be enough? Respect each others answers because in the end it will be a personal opinion and each will represent a vote.(If we get to vote) Optimistic, Pessimistic, Realistic all are important.
 
There are a lot of rampers out there that read USAviation but do not post. Most know someone that does post on here so give them your answer to this question and have them post it for you.

What about you O-man where does your "dignity and respect" kick in?
 
Item 1: I cannot speak for the Pilot union. Your opinion is just as valid as mine on the Pilots or industry insiders who are much smarter than me.

Item 2: What you have quoted is incorrect.
Notice, this is what I said,
1. Parker wrote a letter on December 7, 2006 regarding the Delta merger, “…the synergies [cost savings] are best when operations combine…one set of labor contracts…â€￾
2. Both US AIRWAYS and United airlines have publicly announced they are open to mergers, however, as Boss Canale rightfully said, “US AIRWAYS cannot participate in another merger until it has agreements in place with the machinists union.â€￾
3. US AIRWAYS will also want a transition agreement to avoid section 6 negotiations with its west operation.

That's what I said and nothing is contradictory.

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman 1487 ORD

Thanks Tim. Question number 2 clarified one of my Q's!! That's right from the horses mouth there, take note Ram-Rod.

As far as the Delta merger, I think people have misquoted that. If I did interpret that falsely I stand corrected, Thank you. Although the concensus among many people, especially the pilots, is that Doug can save money by keeping the unions seperate. I can see how this can create the misconception. In what you are saying and what he quoted.

I do wonder, though, what are Canales reasons "rightfully?" Does he have grievences ready?

Is there a realistic chance that we could enter sec-6 here in the West? What say you Timmy?

What can I help myself and our brothers here in PHX concentrate on now? Once again, if you speak directly to us, we can act.

Thanks in advance.

Janet frikin Reno


Oh, BTW, with mergers, economists predict this will create less competition in certain markets. What does basic business practice tell us? Lower competition means higher prices. Airlines intend to start jacking up their prices again to cover the costs, so don't let your union sell your wages short in fear of "higher fuel prices." Even the airlines this day all raise their prices together to compensate. Remember this the next TA.
 
I am a FNG and need someone to break this down without using rhetoric or assuming I am current with the political standings of all involved. I don't care about "juice", I want good info.



Binderella

FNG could stand for a lot of things, but since ur a Frick'in New Guy welcome. You will soon learn on which side of the fence most are on. You will also learn

who chooses their side as a matter of convenience. The bottom line is, the true facts were in the sept 07 TA and the new facts will be Jan 08. What they are,

is anyones guess but you might want to ask " GoldenRam " since he seems to know what we will have to take before it is Negotiated or released to us.

Make it GOOD or

View attachment 7014
 
Two things are going to happen and nothing short of a nuke war is going to stop them from happening.

1. District officer elections. 2. a T/A from the company.

The membership will cast ballots for district officers and voice thier opinion of how well they've done
thier jobs. They only have fear if they have failed the membership. the 100,000 club has been unseen and unheard, ever thought about getting out and earning your keep?

The T/A is coming, if the membership doesn't sell it's self short. It won't pass and the negotiators
will have to keep returning to PHX untill they get it right.
As for the Goldenram (ROD), we don't have to except the same old sh*t, and you favor the
the " cheap suites " crew, so that leads me to believe you are an agc.
Like I've asked you before......ARE YOU PROUD OF THE 17 CENT RAISE THAT YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR?
when you return to the ramp, you will have to live in the sewer you helped build.
 
Two things are going to happen and nothing short of a nuke war is going to stop them from happening.

1. District officer elections. 2. a T/A from the company.

The membership will cast ballots for district officers and voice thier opinion of how well they've done
thier jobs. They only have fear if they have failed the membership. the 100,000 club has been unseen and unheard, ever thought about getting out and earning your keep?

The T/A is coming, if the membership doesn't sell it's self short. It won't pass and the negotiators
will have to keep returning to PHX untill they get it right.
As for the Goldenram (ROD), we don't have to except the same old sh*t, and you favor the
the " cheap suites " crew, so that leads me to believe you are an agc.
Like I've asked you before......ARE YOU PROUD OF THE 17 CENT RAISE THAT YOU RESPONSIBLE FOR?
when you return to the ramp, you will have to live in the sewer you helped build.
Hey b737200 what is your answer to the question asked earlier. "at what dollar figure does "dignity and respect" kick in?" Realist, Pessimist or Optimist? Please share an honest answer.
 
Joe,
First let me say that and this is on a local basis as far as RESPECT goes . I would like to see Management realize that we
are union and that WE will stand together. Management right now laughs at us and that's mostly the memberships fault because
we allowed our local leadership to wine and dine with the managers to keep their cushy schd and so forth. But that is now changing

Now for the rest of your question. having 20+ years with this company Upper Management needs to realize that we are not a bunch
of transient workers that come and go . the majority of east and the minority of the west came to work for this airline as a career
and not a part time job . So having said that they should give us what we had in terms of benefits and salary and in return WE will
give them professional work. and go that extra mile. to me 21.00 an hour is very fair considering how much this company has made
of our backs the last 3 yrs . better working conditions and better benefits. If you pay your people a respectable wage and benefit
you will retain them for many years and wont be spending thousand's upon thousands of dollars hiring /back ground checks/ drug checks/ o.t for training just to have them quit in 6 months..
 
all the good ramp workers who need a fair shake.
This is the first statement that you have made that is positively true. The question is, what do you consider a fair shake? Since you are so in love with the iam, what do you think the iam could do to get us a fair shake? What is fair in your mind?
 
I was just wondering at what dollar figure does "dignity and respect" kick in?


Very good question, UPNAWAY, as I considered a threat topic once of "How Much Do You Think You are Worth?" but I figured it would get more nasty than usual in short order. I couldn't bide my time for too long over the topic, so allow me to mull over the question openly...


Short answer is as to the value of anything would be what someone would pay for it, thus assuming a free market of buyers and sellers or in this case, employers and employees. However, this isn't a free market of atomized individuals negotiating their separate "price" or in this case, their wages, but rather a collective (union) collaboration and voting in unison. At best, we are convenient capitalists and at worse, we are a labor cartel using the justification of need being a claim.

Still for all the short-comings of analysis within the flawed framework of a free market, I could make informal comparisons to others' wages relative to skill set required, the level of education demanded, the amount actual time working, and intangibles of dirty, potentially dangerous work, inconvenent hours and the incliment working environment. Not to mention, the relative supply of workers who can pass criminal checks and drug testing (harder than one might think, especially at low pay).

The median salary in this nation is about $36,000 or approximately $18/hour. So that begs the question, "Is this an average job based upon some of the aforementioned conditions and requirements, and frankly, no, it is not. This job does not require anymore than a high school diploma, the skills are not overly difficult to learn, it isn't a-holes and elbows for 8 non-stop hours at a time, and compared to non-unionized, ramp subcontractors, they are topping out around $12/hour.

At the risk of further annoying other rampers, I think the current IAM contract provides more than enough "dignity and respect" as for the reasons I have stated.

So mulls Jester.
 
Hey b737200 what is your answer to the question asked earlier. "at what dollar figure does "dignity and respect" kick in?" Realist, Pessimist or Optimist? Please share an honest answer.
Dignity and respect.........................!
I believe a fair wage in this industry should hover around 20.00 per hour, that's not unrealistict if our
management wants to stay in the ranks of a top carrier. I think the dignity was lost when the company
tried not to make this a carreer job by lowering the starting wage scale to an unrealistic schedule.
Four weeks of vacation is about the norm, but like everyone else I'd like more. The double time has to come back, that's an industry norm. Holidays........ 10 is the norm unless you work for the government.
Sick time..... you earn it, you should get paid when you use it. Retirement..... the IAM plan with some increases and the 401k as a supplement you should do ok.
I'm from the old school, 30 plus years, and yes I am optimistic hoping for the future to get better.
This has been a good job, outsiders don't understand th alure of working in this bussiness.
I believe the airline is like a football team.... do the basics, be ontime, deliver the bag with paxs,
and give them apleasant experience and you win the game. Current management doesn't understand
this concept. If they would only listen, think of the millions they could save.
Also in closing.... the union is needed, we all know that, but the union leadership and the agc's
are like management, they take the big salaries and stop respecting the people who make thier money for them. I hope this clarifies my positsion for you and I do believe it's time for change esp. at the district level.
 
Thanks Tim. Question number 2 clarified one of my Q's!! That's right from the horses mouth there, take note Ram-Rod.

I do wonder, though, what are Canales reasons "rightfully?" Does he have grievences ready?

Is there a realistic chance that we could enter sec-6 here in the West? What say you Timmy?

What can I help myself and our brothers here in PHX concentrate on now? Once again, if you speak directly to us, we can act.

Thanks in advance.

Janet frikin Reno
Item 1: What are Canale's reasons 'rightfully'? My understanding of Canale is based on his interest. His interest lies with the United Airline Board of Directors which he participates with. Whatever Canale has ready, is only what Parker will allow since he's Parker's boy. Best answer is to try to understand what Parker will allow, and that is what Canale will have ready. Make any sense? That's unfortunate but that's what the scoreboard sez.

Item 2: Is there a realistic chance that we could enter sec-6 here in the West?

First off, although your company sez it wants a transition agreement and it appears to be desperarely seeking one, this has been going on for 2 years. Like Boss Canale believes, I myself am also convinced that your company does in fact need a transition. But what if Boss Canale and myself are wrong? This is where myself and Canale disagree. While I believe your company needs and wants a transition, I have to anticipate that this may not be true because Parker has dragged out transition talks for 2 years now, therefore, my 'beliefs' should not come at the expense of section 6 for the west. I mean, maybe the company is 'jacking o##" the IAM and just stalling the west section 6 AND offering goofy TA's that will never pass. We've already learned that the present IAM AGC's are stupid and inadequate. That is why you have to start section 6 negotiations like yesterday, it is the unions fidicuary duty, it keeps the company accountable, and it is the surest path to a fair agreement. Plus if things get nasty, the east contract provides that no East employee has to cross a picket line. So in essance, if the west strikes, then it becomes a 'domino effect' from coast to coast. Commencing section 6 negotiations also puts more pressure on the company, in any case. If you can work out a fair transition then great but it shouldn't mean you throw the section 6 card out of the deck, then the deck is stacked.

However, although the present leadership is stupid enough to be willing to sidestep section 6 for the west and wait till 2010 if Parker is just playing games on transition, I know who the new US AIRWAYS leaders are going to be and they are clear that they will not wait till 2010 to start section 6 for the west. Once these new US AIRWAYS AGC's enter their office this year and send the boys packing, section 6's will commence.

Item 3: What can I help myself and our brothers here in PHX concentrate on now? Once again, if you speak directly to us, we can act.

Nothing has changed, in any context it's all about doing a professional job + making sure you DON"T work in an unsafe way. It's called respect for eachother and I'd concentrate on that. This is one area where I actually think your company is doing a great job in trying to convey it wants a safe workplace, so I will just yield this question to all those company bulletins that are probably plastered all over your breakroom walls like wallpaper. Best answer, just read the company safety bulletins, and therein lies your answer.

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman 1487 ORD
 
I was just wondering at what dollar figure does "dignity and respect" kick in?
Usually it is measured by industry standards.
For instance, for the year 2008, the ramp pay [wage and longevity] for topped out workers is as follows. Note, shift differs, holidays, vacation accural are not added at this time. Adding such will greatly show the continued oppression of the masses working the US AIRWAYS ramp. Parker should be ashamed of himself for this oppression.

Industry best
Southwest rampers: $24hr [plus an incredible profit sharing program, and ownership program where topped out workers get up to 1400 shares of stock]

Middle of the pack

United Airlines rampers: $20.44

American Airlines rampers: $21.46

Continental rampers: $19.48 plus a mega huge profit sharing program where topped out rampers get [avg $5,000 checks]

Bottom feeders
US AIRWAYS East Hub rampers: $17.52

US AIRWAYS West and Second class stations: $15.60

I will be doing a complete breakdown of all wages/benefits of each airline 'in time'. I think it is rather unfortunate that the IAM misleaders can't let the membership know what industry standards are.
Morons.....we got morons on our negotiations team [newbies excluded]

regards,

Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, ORD 1487
 
Not meaning to stir the pot.

But Tim, what strength does the union have vs the company?

Myself I see none at this time.

You are not in a position of power at the table.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top