Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

Still ticked off we dismantled the 10h trick in court?

Q=USAPA attorney Silverman   A=west pilot holmes
 
Q. By the way, these conversations with Gary Hummel that you
had concerning the versions of what came -- well, what was or
became 10H, were they in person or some other means?
A. They were in front of the entire Negotiating Committee,
the legal team, everyone there. When I asked him if he would
talk to the Phoenix reps about it at the next BPR conference
call, we were having those on a daily basis, sometimes twice a
Dave. He said he would. He never did and then he got sick of
me asking.
MR. SILVERMAN: Move to strike as nonresponsive. I
asked Mr. Holmes whether it was in person or some other means.
THE COURT: Sustained.

 

[snapthis]

 
The court never stated the west pilot were innocent, they concluded it did not fall under the RICO. 
 
"The Plaintiff’s (USAPA) Amended Complaint raises
serious allegations against the Defendants (america west pilots) ; it alleges acts of intimidation,
harassment, and other threatening behavior against the Plaintiff and its
members. While the Court has concluded that such actions do not come
within the purview of RICO, it may well be that a Court of appropriate
jurisdiction will conclude that such actions do constitute violations of state
law and that injunctive relief is warranted to prevent this type of conduct
from continuing."
 
http://cactus18.typepad.com/the_cactus_18/files/final.pdf

 
You lost again plain and simple. Can't spin a win.

Fourth Circuit rules. WE WIN!!!!!

July 30, 2010
Download Final ruling 4th circuit
 
On May 30, 2008 a RICO law suit was filed against me and 23 other America West pilots by our new union Us Airline Pilots Association. After being dismissed from federal court with prejudice without even going to trial. The case was so poor the judge would not even let them try again. USAPA than filed an appeal in the Fourth Circuit court of Appeals in Richmond.
Today 26 months later we finally have our answer. The Fourth Circuit in a unanimous decision upheld or affirmed the district court. This is a tremendous win for all of the Cactus 18 today. Hopefully this will put an end to the vicious and unfounded attack that the leadership of USAPA has aimed our way. Unfortunately I fear that this case may not be over.
USAPA is under pressure to deliver a contract and after two years of telling the pilots that we were criminals and had done something wrong. After spending upwards of $300,000.00 of pilot dues money they have nothing to show for it.
This is the response that the Communications Chairman put out after their loss.
Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond Affirms Dismissal
Today the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, issued its ruling on USAPA's appeal of the dismissal of its lawsuit brought in 2008. USAPA filed the suit, alleging violations of the RICO Statute, against certain pilots who were alleged to be engaged in an overt attempt to deny all US Airways pilots their right to collectively bargain by attempting to destroy our union and performing other harmful and destructive acts to disrupt the union’s ability to perform its representational responsibilities. The appeals court today affirmed the dismissal. Attorneys for the Association are reviewing the ruling presently for potential next steps.
 
Even after losing twice in two different courts in their own backyard these guys still can not admit they were wrong and let it go. The right thing to do would be to apologize and maybe even offer to pay our legal fees for this ordeal. But in typical fashion USAPA threatens to continue the attack and division.
Since this case went to appeal USAPA has been threatening to file in State court of North Carolina if we did not accept some lame settlement deal and admit quilt. It is extremely hard to admit guilt to something that none of us did. Now the courts support that truth, we did not engage in any RICO activity.
The Cactus 18 will have little choice but to defend ourselves again. But unlike last time when we had to educate our pilots on the evil that was being done and explain that we truly were innocent. This time we have the full support of the entire west pilot group and we are beginning to gather support from the east line pilot also. If the USAPA leadership decides to continue on this ill-advised campaign we will go on the offensive and counter sue.
Currently our lawyers are investigating the possibilities of legal action to recover our costs. But if USAPA decides to make the fatal mistake of filing any further legal action we will be forced to not only collect damages but punitive damages also.
A malicious intent law suit would cost this union and the people responsible a load of money.
To bring this journey to an end I want to thank the other Cactus 18 member and the AWAPPA guys. We all stuck together through some extremely critical decisions at any time any of us could have caved in to the pressure and taken a dangerous deal. But we all stuck together and rode out the storm. I would also like to thank my fellow west pilots that supported us during the case. Your words of encouragement and financial support were critical in our success. Also I would like to thank everyone that took the time to read this blog. Hopefully it explained what was going on with this case as it is difficult to do in a short amount of time.
Thank you all.


 
http://cactus18.typepad.com/

 

[luvthe9]

False ID theft charges against 3 West pilots........unproven and thrown out.
Malicious RICO suit against 18 pilots...................dismissed
You know what the term dismissed with prejudice means, Spanky?
"Prejudice is a legal term with different meanings when used in criminal, civil or common law. In general, an action taken with prejudice indicates misconduct on the part of the party who filed the claim and forbids that party from refiling the case, while without prejudice often refers to procedural problems where the party may refile."
Now about the claims that a West pilot mailed feces. I already dismissed this story after talking with Streble the USAPA treasurer who claims his daughter opened the mail. First what is she doing opening mail that is not addressed to her? Second, where are the results of the DNA tests which points a stinky finger at a West pilot.
It sounds like an East mafia style tactic which fits your collective lack of moral charter.
I'd say you guys are full of your own BS.
There's the joke, right there in the mirror.

Move, you just cannot hide inside Snap. Your inner qualities? just keep leaching out like the drain of a trash truck.

 

[luvthe9]

I just see a bunch of elderly scabs in four stripes that don't deserve to wear them...like a Haloween costume party of SCABS. these are the faces that forcibly stripped over a BILLION dollars from a group of ill-informed pilots.

Wait till tonight and the latest bid closes. Res is going to be really steamed.

 

[snapthis]

luvthe9, on 03 Nov 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

Move, you just cannot hide inside Snap. Your inner qualities? just keep leaching out like the drain of a trash truck.

I'm enjoying the systematic dismantling and disposing of the USAPA problem.
 
And giving it the proper burial with the help of...
 
http://www.cloggedsepticsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/rid-x.jpg
 

 

[Claxon]

 
A=Holmes
 
Q. As of this point in December of 2012, you and others had
concerns about the language of 10H; would that be fair to say?
A. Yes.
Q. And other people had views about 10H and its effects that
you disagreed with; is that correct?
A. Yes, we disagreed with that.
Q. But that as of that time, you knew there was a question
mark in the air, what is the effect of the MOU on the
Transition Agreement. That was a question mark; is that
correct?
A. That's a question mark.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. I agreed with you.
Q. You agree with me.
You had your view; other people had their views; is
that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And at some point you decided to put that question mark,
that concern aside because there were other things in the MOU
which you thought were worth going forward with. Is that your
testimony, sir?
A. I was forced to put that aside. It wasn't an agreement
that -- you know, if it's truly neutral, why did it need to be
in there? I said that repeatedly.
MR. SILVERMAN: Move to strike as nonresponsive,
Judge.
THE COURT: Sustained.

Holmes was nonresponsive quite often when asked about the 10H

 

[Claxon]

 
Q. It was a big topic of conversation amongst this group. Is
that right?
A. That among other things, yes.
Q. Among other things. Thank you.
Sir, you testified earlier -- withdrawn.
Sir, did you or Mr. Calveri ever bring forward during
the negotiations for the MOU, MOU II, for it to include a
provision that, in words or substance, that the Nicolau Award
must be included in the McCaskill-Bond process? Did you ever
bring forward a proposal in that regard?
A. No. The first questions, like I said, we had with that
were when we had that Merger Committee and conference call and
Pat kind of beat us to the punch on that so I didn't see the
need that they were going to do 180 degrees on what they
proposed.
MR. SILVERMAN: I move to strike as nonresponsive,
Judge.
THE COURT: Sustained.

.

 

[Pi brat]

 Integrity indeed. Name the doc if you are up on the facts. Here's a clue.

"Captain Hummel’s “declaration” purports to include detailed evidence of the
number of pilots eligible to vote (without providing who or where this information came
from) and the names of each West committee member, much of which is inaccurate and stale information. It is apparent that the recitation of this type of information is not
something Captain Hummel would have offered if he was on the witness stand. This is
an attempt by USAPA to supplement the record with information contained in documents which it neither admitted at trial nor produced in discovery. This information is also the type of evidence that could have been offered by any of the other USAPA officers –
Captain Bradford, Steve Smsyer or Rob Streble. Yet, USAPA chose not to call any of
these individuals and instead wait a week until after trial to attempt to include this
evidence via Captain Hummel’s declaration."

Who cares? It didn't make any difference.

 

[luvthe9]

Still ticked off we dismantled the 10h trick in court?

Care to edit that statement after the last two Claxon posts? Holmes and Rocky were dismantled by Silverman.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm enjoying the systematic dismantling and disposing of the USAPA problem.
 
And giving it the proper burial with the help of...
 
http://www.cloggedsepticsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/rid-x.jpg
 

 
Your Ridx picture above is about as effective as Marty's summary of evidence at the trial below (think Charmin toilet paper) :
 
 

The requisite preponderance of evidence shows that USAPA drafted ¶ 10.h in MOU #2 to nullify the 2005 TA
seniority integration provisions and that it did so for no legitimate union purpose.
[Ex. 115.] This establishes that USAPA breached its duty of fair representation.
 

 
Marty's first blunder is his greedy attempt to place the burden of proof on the defendant rather than man up and accept that he has to prove USAPA acted outside a wide range of reasonableness.  Integrity.  Meh.  
Marty bases his unending billing adventures on another implicit assumption and wastes everyone's money and time.  (But not PositiveNellie's anymore, since he "retired" from there 😀 )
 
The only question that remains is if Silver has the cajones to sign her name to be on board with that.  

 

[snapthis]

Q=USAPA attorney Silverman   A=west pilot holmes
 
Q. By the way, these conversations with Gary Hummel that you
had concerning the versions of what came -- well, what was or
became 10H, were they in person or some other means?
A. They were in front of the entire Negotiating Committee,
the legal team, everyone there. When I asked him if he would
talk to the Phoenix reps about it at the next BPR conference
call, we were having those on a daily basis, sometimes twice a
Dave. He said he would. He never did and then he got sick of
me asking.
MR. SILVERMAN: Move to strike as nonresponsive. I
asked Mr. Holmes whether it was in person or some other means.
THE COURT: Sustained.

Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS Document 259 Filed 10/31/13 excerpt
Mr. Holmes objected to the “Single Agreement” language after it was proposed by USAPA. [Holmes.] He told Mr. Colello and others, including USAPA’s merger counsel Pat Szymanski, that no West Pilot would vote to ratify an agreement that had such language. [Id.] In response to that objection, Mr. Szymanski (presumably with input from USAPA leaders) drafted alternative language that became ¶ 10.h. [Colello.] Mr.
Szymanski did not offer testimony to explain the purpose for that language. No other USAPA leader has admitted knowing that purpose. [Hummel; Bradford; Pauley.] The totality of the evidence shows that, from the resumption of MOU negotiations in mid-December 2012, USAPA intended to use ¶ 10.h to accomplish the same goal as the “Single Agreement” language discussed above, but to do it in a manner that masked
such intention from the West Pilots. In other words, Mr. Szymanski and others who have not come clean planned to use ¶ 10.h to achieve what Mr. Bradford began back in 2007—the elimination of the obligation to implement the Nicolau Award in the next contract and in the next merger. Clearly, USAPA thought it had achieved that goal.

 

[Phoenix]

The evidence also proves that USAPA has an unwaivable conflict of interest with
the West Pilots on the issue of East/West seniority integration. This establishes that the
West Pilots are entitled to separate and independent representation in the process of
integrating seniority between the US Airways and American pilots.
 

 
 
The Cactus pilots, the Trump Shuttle pilots, the Empire pilots, the PSA pilots, the Piedmont pilots, the USAir pilots, the MDA pilots, the Third List pilots, the etc. etc. etc.....  All deserve their own representation.    Pssst... they have it now.   ALPA is gone.  🙂

 

[snapthis]

 
Your Ridx picture above is about as effective as Marty's summary of evidence at the trial below (think Charmin toilet paper) :
 
 
 
Marty's first blunder is his greedy attempt to place the burden of proof on the defendant rather than man up and accept that he has to prove USAPA acted outside a wide range of reasonableness.  Integrity.  Meh.  
Marty bases his unending billing adventures on another implicit assumption and wastes everyone's money and time.  (But not PositiveNellie's anymore, since he "retired" from there 😀 )
 
The only question that remains is if Silver has the cajones to sign her name to be on board with that.  

 
Y'all remind me of those Somali pirates. Grabbing West hostages with RICO lawsuits in attempt to subdue opposition to your attempted theft of our careers.There's been an effective weapon against pirates where their hatred of anything West is used against them as a deterrent. It's a form of psychological warfare. It's called Britney Spears.
 
"Merchant naval officer Rachel Owens recently spoke to Metro and revealed that a "blast of Britney" is all it takes to send the pirates packing. Her songs were chosen by the security team because they thought the pirates would hate them most," Owens said.The "Toxic" singer can take heart though — it's nothing personal.
 
"These guys can't stand western culture or music, making Britney's hits perfect," Owens explained. "It’s so effective the ship’s security rarely needs to resort to firing guns."
There you have it: Britney Spears
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/britney-spears-music-used-drive-away-somali-pirates-8C11488068#
 
Your hatred of the West has caused you to make some stupid and emotional decisions which have cost you dearly. I'm more than happy to remind you in the form of my support of AOL's lawsuits and here on this forum for as long as it takes.
 
"Oops!... I Did It Again"
 

 

[Claxon]

Case 2:13-cv-00471-ROS Document 259 Filed 10/31/13 excerpt
Mr. Holmes objected to the “Single Agreement” language after it was proposed by USAPA. [Holmes.] He told Mr. Colello and others, including USAPA’s merger counsel Pat Szymanski, that no West Pilot would vote to ratify an agreement that had such language. [Id.] In response to that objection, Mr. Szymanski (presumably with input from USAPA leaders) drafted alternative language that became ¶ 10.h. [Colello.] Mr.
Szymanski did not offer testimony to explain the purpose for that language. No other USAPA leader has admitted knowing that purpose. [Hummel; Bradford; Pauley.] The totality of the evidence shows that, from the resumption of MOU negotiations in mid-December 2012, USAPA intended to use ¶ 10.h to accomplish the same goal as the “Single Agreement” language discussed above, but to do it in a manner that masked
such intention from the West Pilots. In other words, Mr. Szymanski and others who have not come clean planned to use ¶ 10.h to achieve what Mr. Bradford began back in 2007—the elimination of the obligation to implement the Nicolau Award in the next contract and in the next merger. Clearly, USAPA thought it had achieved that goal.

You are quoting your own west legal briefs to defend your statment.   It is another west lawyer 28j attempt to overide the self damning testimony of  holmes in the cross exam. 

 

[Pi brat]

 
Y'all remind me of those Somali pirates. Grabbing West hostages with RICO lawsuits in attempt to subdue opposition to your attempted theft of our careers.There's been an effective weapon against pirates where their hatred of anything West is used against them as a deterrent. It's a form of psychological warfare. It's called Britney Spears.
 
"Merchant naval officer Rachel Owens recently spoke to Metro and revealed that a "blast of Britney" is all it takes to send the pirates packing. Her songs were chosen by the security team because they thought the pirates would hate them most," Owens said.The "Toxic" singer can take heart though — it's nothing personal.
 
"These guys can't stand western culture or music, making Britney's hits perfect," Owens explained. "It’s so effective the ship’s security rarely needs to resort to firing guns."
There you have it: Britney Spears
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/entertainment/britney-spears-music-used-drive-away-somali-pirates-8C11488068#
 
Your hatred of the West has caused you to make some stupid and emotional decisions which have cost you dearly. I'm more than happy to remind you in the form of my support of AOL's lawsuits and here on this forum for as long as it takes.
 
"Oops!... I Did It Again"
 

 
Wow. :huh: