Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion
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snapthis
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Phoenix said:
I'm in pretty good spirits myself. Just relaxing and enjoying a good read.
CASE NOTE: RIPE, RIPER, RIPEST? THE NINTH CIRCUIT'S DECISION IN ADDINGTON V. U.S. AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, SETS A MISGUIDED RIPENESS STANDARD FOR DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION CLAIMS
Winter, 2011
Journal of Air Law and Commerce
76 J. Air L. & Com. 127
Author
R.J. Pathroff*
Excerpt
IN ADDINGTON v. U.S. Airline Pilots Ass'n, the Ninth Circuit held that, as a matter of first impression, a plaintiff pilot group's duty of fair-representation (DFR) claim against a pilot union arising out of an ongoing labor dispute was not ripe before the ratification of a collective bargaining agreement (CBA) with the airline. 1 Though it was faced with a difficult set of facts, the court's decision to dismiss the case was misguided. In its analysis, the Ninth Circuit cast aside the most applicable case law available to it, relying instead on an overly narrow view of what constitutes a breach of the DFR to support its holding. 2
That means more to you than the MOU effective on Dec 9th? 
traderjake
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Pi brat said:
Not as sad as thinking East posters have the moral high ground here.
Piedmont1984
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Dec. 01, 2013
Fellow Pilots of the Line, BPR, Officers, Committees and others:
This letter and all the issues are not about Hummel, DiOrio, the Past or Future. It is not about you or me it is about “US” every pilot at US Airways. It is about the “Fair & Equitable” treatment of each of US.
It seems like only yesterday we were hearing rumors of a merger with American. Later this week the BPR meets for what likely will be the last time before POR day. As the world continues to change will we adapt and thrive or continue to fight remaining stuck in the past.
In my 28 year career, I spent most of it watching from afar. I made the choice to watch closer for the last year and half, and it has been quite intriguing to say the least. It has not always been pretty, yet it is always pretty interesting as the personalities either interact or fail to.
It is said 10 percent of the people do 90 percent of the work. I am concerned that our current Union makeup is such that we face a situation where 90 percent of the mischief is done by 60 percent of the active 10 percent. I do believe this group will continue to hide behind the “Will of the Pilots” wall.
We are entering what I believe to be the biggest career setting time since the Tragedy of 9-11. Divided we will fall, united we can survive and thrive. I have had mentors along my flight path and I am thankful for them all. Here I will use the Braniff Pilots, whom I was fortunate enough to have shared their flight deck. As mergers began to populate the horizon, they made the statement concerning priorities and how to focus dealing with them. The statement was “Do not be concerned with the color of the uniform, remember from the flight deck you can’t see the color of the plane. Only be concerned with, is the color of the money green”.
While attending the most recent CLT meeting I heard a couple of statements made by different people. I would like to expand on the statements a bit.
One was a term “Negotiating Capital” this term can be used to describe money, time and energy. I strongly feel we should guide and allow our NAC the latitude to spend our “Negotiating Capital” in a manner that gives our pilots the greatest return on our investment. Negotiating does not equal Concession; it just means an interaction by the participating parties.
Another statement made and not the exact wording dealt with the what ifs of “Back Room Deals, Union Attorneys being on Company Bonus Plans, Hummel is not working for the Pilots and other speculative accusations. I feel the making of statements like this serve the pilots in no capacity except to raise the suspicions toward the duly elected President and was made by a duly elected BPR member. My question is “where is the proof’?
Then the statement was made to the effect; “DCA is preventing CLT & PHL from running this union, and we have the majority”. I believe once again all this does is anger the rank and file for the sake of agenda achievement. The movie trailers are playing, so look for the “The New Roll Call 6” to play in USAPA HQ soon. I wonder when Democracy will change to Dictatorship. After hearing some of the Founding Fathers speak, my interpretation of their intent was to form a more perfect Dictatorship from the beginning.
For the sake of discussion concerning DCA, would the eradication of DCA’s ability to have influence on its destiny be a DFR. Also if DCA is not allowed fair representation does this allow them to file for separate status in Negotiations? A BPR member stated “Why should about 280 pilots control us”. In my opinion we will, shortly hear APA say a mere “4200 pilots will not tell over 9000 pilots what to do “. Being in the majority is great until I am the minority. I think it might have been wise to treat the minority like I want to be treated,” when I join the minority”, just a thought. For some ego driven people they just feed their ego one meal at a time, with no regard to the possibility they could be the next meal.
I am not programed to carry hatred for any length of time, it takes too much time, energy and it sucks my life away. I hoped and prayed our union would not contain people who view the “Line Pilot” as “Collateral Damage “and would do anything necessary to satisfy a perceived injustice. I fear this is not the case currently in our union. I attend meetings expecting the business of representing the pilots to be conducted, yet witness almost total dysfunction. I have heard Paul DiOrio state “I will do whatever it takes to take Gary out”, also “Gary I have all day, I will throw rocks at you all Day”. Mr. DiOrio may be on FPL but neither I nor you my fellow pilot are. I do not believe spending our Union Dues for “Rock Throwing “is responsible action. In a Union where we are all to be treated equal, then where it concerns flight pay loss should it be “FPL for All or FPL for None”.
Here, I use Paul DiOrio, but the name can be changed to fit most all of the "Assassinate the President Team". I have watched them along the way, witnessed their outrage and anger. I think this fits Bob Frear, who resigned from the NAC, and then Hummel would not put him back on it, Courtney Borman who was removed from P4P and Paul DiOrio who was on NAC and removed by Hummel. Although many times it has been printed by my Reps “It is nothing personal, we just want the President to follow the rules” gentlemen I cannot read your print for watching your actions.
Let me state here I give my full appreciation to all who serve me and my fellow pilots. I admire the passion which they display, even if I feel they are off course. Mr. DiOrio displays a passion that I would love to see this pilot group infected with. So as you read this just pretend you are in a shoe store, if the shoe fits, wear it proudly.
A Person Who is Unhappy with Another's Success
"For many years, Paul DiOrio was the head of our Negotiating Advisory Committee. And guess what? During that time, nothing happened.
Well, almost nothing. Our wages and benefits got cut, management refused to negotiate with us and we were barred from striking.
DiOrio got fired as head of the NAC and guess what? Under new leadership, our NAC had a key role in negotiating the MOU which will gives us a substantial raise when the merger between AMR and USA goes through.
So DiOrio got himself elected as a BPR rep and is on a single-minded mission to undermine the man who fired him: Gary Hummel.
Hummel’s not perfect. No one is. But Doug Parker must think that Paul DiOrio is his number one friend. Instead of fighting the company, DiOrio is fighting other members of the union.
Hummel, as you probably know, had a heart attack and by-pass surgery. Now DiOrio spends most of his time attacking Hummel. He’s told some that he wants to recall Hummel. I myself have witnessed his attacks and statements as such.
How will that help us? Best thing for Doug Parker is when the union wastes time fighting among itself, instead of the company. Now APA will happily leave us on the side lines if all we are doing is (IN) fighting.
DiOrio reminds me of the guy in Billy Joel’s song “Angry Young Man”:
"And there's always a place for the angry young man With his fist in the air and his head in the sand He's never been able to learn from mistakes He can't understand why his heart always breaks His honor is pure, and his courage as well he's fair and he's true, and he's boring as hell And he'll go to his grave as an angry old man"
I remember growing up dealing with fellow children who had a mentality of,” if others have a toy and I cannot have it then destroy it”. Folks we are not children anymore, that mentality was wrong then and now. Do not envy another’s success,reveal in it, garnish hope from it and move on. We need to focus on the progress made, not who made it or takes credit for it.
When choosing between a “Leader who can be a Politician” and a “Politician who cannot Lead”. I will take the Leader. President Hummel throughout his term has displayed the ability and now the proof to get our pilot group to this POR on equal footing with APA. Even now as Hummel faces an impending recall this week, he focuses not on his physical nor political health; he chooses to focus on the wellbeing of the pilots he represents.
Yes, folks the blunt harsh reality is he is willing to give his LIFE for the pilots he represents. You might say it is “Ego” driven, was it Ego driven when he stood in a Check Airmen meeting and raised a flag on Fuel School? Or is it just who Hummel is, we judge by actions not words.
Politicians win Popularity contest, Leaders win wars. Which do you want going forward?
As Pilots when the chips are down, do you fly as a Leader or Politician?
Fellow Pilots in Closing let me say:
I Capt. Kirk Atkinson:
(a) wrote the above solely of my own free will and accord
(b) give full forwarding approval to all parties who read this and obtain this by any and all methods.
(c) stand by my statements and base them on what I have witnessed not by third party hearsay .
(d) realize while this correspondence may not win me any popularity contest, I live & die by it
(e) I enjoy flying, and see many birds along the way. I get to make the choice will I live like the type that flocks for protection or those that fly solo.
(f) Could we take an unofficial unbiased union survey, Eagles or Turkeys?
For me I can say” Very little congestion up here”.
To prevent having “Reply All” issues I sent this to the following under separate emails.
The: Officers, BPR, NAC, Grievance, Com, Attorneys if I have them, web boards as can, and others.
Capt. Kirk Atkinson A-320 CLT
Fellow Pilots of the Line, BPR, Officers, Committees and others:
This letter and all the issues are not about Hummel, DiOrio, the Past or Future. It is not about you or me it is about “US” every pilot at US Airways. It is about the “Fair & Equitable” treatment of each of US.
It seems like only yesterday we were hearing rumors of a merger with American. Later this week the BPR meets for what likely will be the last time before POR day. As the world continues to change will we adapt and thrive or continue to fight remaining stuck in the past.
In my 28 year career, I spent most of it watching from afar. I made the choice to watch closer for the last year and half, and it has been quite intriguing to say the least. It has not always been pretty, yet it is always pretty interesting as the personalities either interact or fail to.
It is said 10 percent of the people do 90 percent of the work. I am concerned that our current Union makeup is such that we face a situation where 90 percent of the mischief is done by 60 percent of the active 10 percent. I do believe this group will continue to hide behind the “Will of the Pilots” wall.
We are entering what I believe to be the biggest career setting time since the Tragedy of 9-11. Divided we will fall, united we can survive and thrive. I have had mentors along my flight path and I am thankful for them all. Here I will use the Braniff Pilots, whom I was fortunate enough to have shared their flight deck. As mergers began to populate the horizon, they made the statement concerning priorities and how to focus dealing with them. The statement was “Do not be concerned with the color of the uniform, remember from the flight deck you can’t see the color of the plane. Only be concerned with, is the color of the money green”.
While attending the most recent CLT meeting I heard a couple of statements made by different people. I would like to expand on the statements a bit.
One was a term “Negotiating Capital” this term can be used to describe money, time and energy. I strongly feel we should guide and allow our NAC the latitude to spend our “Negotiating Capital” in a manner that gives our pilots the greatest return on our investment. Negotiating does not equal Concession; it just means an interaction by the participating parties.
Another statement made and not the exact wording dealt with the what ifs of “Back Room Deals, Union Attorneys being on Company Bonus Plans, Hummel is not working for the Pilots and other speculative accusations. I feel the making of statements like this serve the pilots in no capacity except to raise the suspicions toward the duly elected President and was made by a duly elected BPR member. My question is “where is the proof’?
Then the statement was made to the effect; “DCA is preventing CLT & PHL from running this union, and we have the majority”. I believe once again all this does is anger the rank and file for the sake of agenda achievement. The movie trailers are playing, so look for the “The New Roll Call 6” to play in USAPA HQ soon. I wonder when Democracy will change to Dictatorship. After hearing some of the Founding Fathers speak, my interpretation of their intent was to form a more perfect Dictatorship from the beginning.
For the sake of discussion concerning DCA, would the eradication of DCA’s ability to have influence on its destiny be a DFR. Also if DCA is not allowed fair representation does this allow them to file for separate status in Negotiations? A BPR member stated “Why should about 280 pilots control us”. In my opinion we will, shortly hear APA say a mere “4200 pilots will not tell over 9000 pilots what to do “. Being in the majority is great until I am the minority. I think it might have been wise to treat the minority like I want to be treated,” when I join the minority”, just a thought. For some ego driven people they just feed their ego one meal at a time, with no regard to the possibility they could be the next meal.
I am not programed to carry hatred for any length of time, it takes too much time, energy and it sucks my life away. I hoped and prayed our union would not contain people who view the “Line Pilot” as “Collateral Damage “and would do anything necessary to satisfy a perceived injustice. I fear this is not the case currently in our union. I attend meetings expecting the business of representing the pilots to be conducted, yet witness almost total dysfunction. I have heard Paul DiOrio state “I will do whatever it takes to take Gary out”, also “Gary I have all day, I will throw rocks at you all Day”. Mr. DiOrio may be on FPL but neither I nor you my fellow pilot are. I do not believe spending our Union Dues for “Rock Throwing “is responsible action. In a Union where we are all to be treated equal, then where it concerns flight pay loss should it be “FPL for All or FPL for None”.
Here, I use Paul DiOrio, but the name can be changed to fit most all of the "Assassinate the President Team". I have watched them along the way, witnessed their outrage and anger. I think this fits Bob Frear, who resigned from the NAC, and then Hummel would not put him back on it, Courtney Borman who was removed from P4P and Paul DiOrio who was on NAC and removed by Hummel. Although many times it has been printed by my Reps “It is nothing personal, we just want the President to follow the rules” gentlemen I cannot read your print for watching your actions.
Let me state here I give my full appreciation to all who serve me and my fellow pilots. I admire the passion which they display, even if I feel they are off course. Mr. DiOrio displays a passion that I would love to see this pilot group infected with. So as you read this just pretend you are in a shoe store, if the shoe fits, wear it proudly.
A Person Who is Unhappy with Another's Success
"For many years, Paul DiOrio was the head of our Negotiating Advisory Committee. And guess what? During that time, nothing happened.
Well, almost nothing. Our wages and benefits got cut, management refused to negotiate with us and we were barred from striking.
DiOrio got fired as head of the NAC and guess what? Under new leadership, our NAC had a key role in negotiating the MOU which will gives us a substantial raise when the merger between AMR and USA goes through.
So DiOrio got himself elected as a BPR rep and is on a single-minded mission to undermine the man who fired him: Gary Hummel.
Hummel’s not perfect. No one is. But Doug Parker must think that Paul DiOrio is his number one friend. Instead of fighting the company, DiOrio is fighting other members of the union.
Hummel, as you probably know, had a heart attack and by-pass surgery. Now DiOrio spends most of his time attacking Hummel. He’s told some that he wants to recall Hummel. I myself have witnessed his attacks and statements as such.
How will that help us? Best thing for Doug Parker is when the union wastes time fighting among itself, instead of the company. Now APA will happily leave us on the side lines if all we are doing is (IN) fighting.
DiOrio reminds me of the guy in Billy Joel’s song “Angry Young Man”:
"And there's always a place for the angry young man With his fist in the air and his head in the sand He's never been able to learn from mistakes He can't understand why his heart always breaks His honor is pure, and his courage as well he's fair and he's true, and he's boring as hell And he'll go to his grave as an angry old man"
I remember growing up dealing with fellow children who had a mentality of,” if others have a toy and I cannot have it then destroy it”. Folks we are not children anymore, that mentality was wrong then and now. Do not envy another’s success,reveal in it, garnish hope from it and move on. We need to focus on the progress made, not who made it or takes credit for it.
When choosing between a “Leader who can be a Politician” and a “Politician who cannot Lead”. I will take the Leader. President Hummel throughout his term has displayed the ability and now the proof to get our pilot group to this POR on equal footing with APA. Even now as Hummel faces an impending recall this week, he focuses not on his physical nor political health; he chooses to focus on the wellbeing of the pilots he represents.
Yes, folks the blunt harsh reality is he is willing to give his LIFE for the pilots he represents. You might say it is “Ego” driven, was it Ego driven when he stood in a Check Airmen meeting and raised a flag on Fuel School? Or is it just who Hummel is, we judge by actions not words.
Politicians win Popularity contest, Leaders win wars. Which do you want going forward?
As Pilots when the chips are down, do you fly as a Leader or Politician?
Fellow Pilots in Closing let me say:
I Capt. Kirk Atkinson:
(a) wrote the above solely of my own free will and accord
(b) give full forwarding approval to all parties who read this and obtain this by any and all methods.
(c) stand by my statements and base them on what I have witnessed not by third party hearsay .
(d) realize while this correspondence may not win me any popularity contest, I live & die by it
(e) I enjoy flying, and see many birds along the way. I get to make the choice will I live like the type that flocks for protection or those that fly solo.
(f) Could we take an unofficial unbiased union survey, Eagles or Turkeys?
For me I can say” Very little congestion up here”.
To prevent having “Reply All” issues I sent this to the following under separate emails.
The: Officers, BPR, NAC, Grievance, Com, Attorneys if I have them, web boards as can, and others.
Capt. Kirk Atkinson A-320 CLT
American Airlines Pilots do not mess with the america west pilots, you could lose the Phoenix hub if you do.
http://www.farecompare.com/news/american-us-airways-merger-what-a-combined-route-map-looks-like/
http://www.farecompare.com/news/american-us-airways-merger-what-a-combined-route-map-looks-like/
"During the election campaign, a group of West pilots formed AWAPPA for the stated purpose of "educat[ing] pre-merger America West pilots about USAPA and relevant events taking place, while providing recommendations that will ultimately lead to USAPA's downfall." [Id. at ¶44]. Another organization that was formed to oppose USAPA was Leonidas, LLC ("Leonidas"), which was organized in August 2007. [Id. at ¶45]. In May 2008, AWAPPA announced that "both AWAPPA and Leonidas LLC have been in the process of combining our legal efforts to best protect the interests of the America West pilots." [Id. at ¶47]. In a March 18, 2008, letter to West pilots, Defendant McIlvenna, a director of both AWAPPA and Leonidas, declared "war against USAPA" and stated that "there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent." [Id. at ¶48]."
"On April 22, 2008, Defendant McIlvenna sent an e-mail to an unidentified US Airways pilot, stating, "I hope the pilot group does not know about your plan to pay USAPA dues and join as a member, else I fear for your safety." [Id. at ¶84];"
"The pilot sought the assistance of US Airways in dealing with multiple threats that he received by phone and e-mail in response to his interest in becoming an USAPA representative, including a threatening e-mail from Defendant Abbott on May 12, 2008, inquiring as to when a "blanket party" (a method of assault wherein the victim is covered by a blanket while being attacked) would be held for this pilot. This same pilot also has been subjected to threats by "multiple pilots" to put him on a "no fly" list. [Id. at ¶¶85, 86];"
http://nc.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20080711_0001098.WNC.htm/qx
"
"On April 22, 2008, Defendant McIlvenna sent an e-mail to an unidentified US Airways pilot, stating, "I hope the pilot group does not know about your plan to pay USAPA dues and join as a member, else I fear for your safety." [Id. at ¶84];"
"The pilot sought the assistance of US Airways in dealing with multiple threats that he received by phone and e-mail in response to his interest in becoming an USAPA representative, including a threatening e-mail from Defendant Abbott on May 12, 2008, inquiring as to when a "blanket party" (a method of assault wherein the victim is covered by a blanket while being attacked) would be held for this pilot. This same pilot also has been subjected to threats by "multiple pilots" to put him on a "no fly" list. [Id. at ¶¶85, 86];"
http://nc.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20080711_0001098.WNC.htm/qx
"
March, 2007
"No amount of whitewashing by management can cover the fact that the daily operations of US Airways are appalling," said (ALPA) America West Master Executive Council Chairman Captain John McIlvenna."
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2007/2007-3-14_07.AAA-AWA2.htm
"No amount of whitewashing by management can cover the fact that the daily operations of US Airways are appalling," said (ALPA) America West Master Executive Council Chairman Captain John McIlvenna."
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2007/2007-3-14_07.AAA-AWA2.htm
Res Judicata
Veteran
James, get over it. So your career hasn't been anything close to what you were told it was going to be in 1989. So what? That's life. Just find a mental health professional you're comfortable with, and rid your house of ALL firearms. Nobody else is to blame. You can't take out any single person that will magically grant you the career of your peers. A career that you so violently envy. ENVY James. It's just not worth it. Be happy as a 24 year commuter "captain" making **** pay. It's just life James. LIFE is something sacred. Wasting it is a mortal sin. Understand James?Claxon said:
Reed Richards
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How about at least a footnote to credit the FBI. This is simply your rejection letter recycled. RR (insert visual of the polygraph needle jumping up and down)Res Judicata said:
Res, get over it. So your career hasn't been anything close to what you were told it would be in 1999. So what? That's life. Just find a mental health professional your comfortable with and rid yourself of all firearms. Nobody else is to blame, maybe Karma for your not acknowledging a blatant wrong and wanting your windfall NOW. Be happy as a new entrant F/O, you'll get there someday. Don't be envious.Res Judicata said:
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