Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nevergiveup]

General Question for everyone:
Not that I'm not entertained by the bitter sniping going on - but - has anyone:
 
1. Read the AA contract? 
2. Is there a QRG for differences between the old US and new AA contract?
3. Anyone know if it goes into effect on the 9th or the 10th?
 
I'm planning on sitting down and reading the thing, but if anyone has notes and would like to share, that would be great too.
A recent email from the union piqued my interest in what I don't know about the new work rules.
I'll post what I discover.....just be warned I'm a slow reader.
Cheers.

Long call may go away which could be painful for reserve commuters. 

 

[nycbusdriver]

General Question for everyone:
Not that I'm not entertained by the bitter sniping going on - but - has anyone:
 
1. Read the AA contract? 
2. Is there a QRG for differences between the old US and new AA contract?
3. Anyone know if it goes into effect on the 9th or the 10th?
 
I'm planning on sitting down and reading the thing, but if anyone has notes and would like to share, that would be great too.
A recent email from the union piqued my interest in what I don't know about the new work rules.
I'll post what I discover.....just be warned I'm a slow reader.
Cheers.

 
You must be in the training department.
 
QRG?
 
Is that anything like QRH?  CQT?   CLO?  CMO?  OTD?  TGS?   FBI?   CIA?  CAMI?  TEM? TSA?  
 
(I think I figured it out.....is it Quick Reference Guide?  Do I win a prize?)
 
If that's it, we have been promised such a thing, but not been privileged to actually get one.  My guess is that we can figure out that information, also.  Whichever parts of the AA contract will make our lives more miserable will be put into effect in short order.  The nice parts?  Sorry, but it will be at least 18-24 months before the computer program can be modified to handle those.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Yep,  here is where the weak language in the MOU starts to bite us.   What SHOULD happen is on the 9th we go to full DH pay, AA greenbook rigs, etc.     But we all know what IS going to happen is we will continue on current rigs and DH pay etc.  
 
Anybody want to lay the odds on us actually getting the Jan 1st pay raise as scheduled?   Not saying they will or they wont,  just stating that nothing with this place is 100% unless it benefits the company.
 
Was very disappointed that it appears mgmt. is starting the same old "we'll that's going to be tricky" even before the ink is dry on this whole thing.

 

[A320 Driver]

Yep,  here is where the weak language in the MOU starts to bite us.   What SHOULD happen is on the 9th we go to full DH pay, AA greenbook rigs, etc.     But we all know what IS going to happen is we will continue on current rigs and DH pay etc.  
 
Anybody want to lay the odds on us actually getting the Jan 1st pay raise as scheduled?   Not saying they will or they wont,  just stating that nothing with this place is 100% unless it benefits the company.
 
Was very disappointed that it appears mgmt. is starting the same old "we'll that's going to be tricky" even before the ink is dry on this whole thing.

We'll see how the new Flight Dept. management deals with all of these issues now that we will work for AA's VP/Flight Ops.

 

[700UW]

The companies arent merged, you dont work for AA's flight department and cant until the AOCs are combined.

 

[A320 Driver]

The companies arent merged, you dont work for AA's flight department and cant until the AOCs are combined.

The VPs duties have already been redefined and that will take place very shortly. 

 

[Freighterguynow]

 
Would you like a DNA sample? 
 
That's right up there with false RICO charges.
 
You go girl...It's no wonder your union is despised.
 

Fourth Circuit rules. WE WIN!!!!!

July 30, 2010

 
Even after losing twice in two different courts in their own backyard these guys still can not admit they were wrong and let it go. The right thing to do would be to apologize and maybe even offer to pay our legal fees for this ordeal. But in typical fashion USAPA threatens to continue the attack and division"
 


http://cactus18.typepad.com/

Once again you need to be reminded that suit was dismissed simply because it was filed in the wrong court just like the Wake was dismissed for ripeness.

Yet, when faced with identical results, you somehow find victory for yourselves in the one then contradict yourselves by arguing loss for USAPA in the other.

Heads we win tails you lose - the West way.

 

[Pi brat]

If you haven't been to work, the  Merger Transition Agreement QRG bulletin is available on wings. It's 24 pages long. Go to wings>flt operations>electronic library>FOM drop down menu for bulletins. 19-13
 
When you read it let me know what you think I'll get paid for CQT in January. ;-) It says training it TBD, but goal for January. It looks to me like some is pay and credit and some pay. They don't use the term pay no credit, but an AA pilot told me it is if you go on your days off, but they try not to schedule you on your days off like we do.
 
Going to be an interesting year, but then again it hasn't been boring for a while.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yep,  here is where the weak language in the MOU starts to bite us.   What SHOULD happen is on the 9th we go to full DH pay, AA greenbook rigs, etc.     But we all know what IS going to happen is we will continue on current rigs and DH pay etc.  
 
Anybody want to lay the odds on us actually getting the Jan 1st pay raise as scheduled?   Not saying they will or they wont,  just stating that nothing with this place is 100% unless it benefits the company.
 
Was very disappointed that it appears mgmt. is starting the same old "we'll that's going to be tricky" even before the ink is dry on this whole thing.

 
 
As I recall (probably with some fuzzy memory issues), several years back the company decided to pay us differently based on ACARS data.  It meant less for us, and more for them, and the change was made in the software almost overnight.
 
When it was determined (arbitration?) that the company had been wrong in doing that, it took nearly two years of excuses on not being able to reprogram the system to comply with the correct pay procedure.  We were told to keep records and claim later, knowing full well that pilots are loathe to do paperwork like that.
 
It's disgraceful how this company abuses labor contracts.  We tried to warn those AA folks: "Meet the new boss, same (worse?) than the old boss."

 

[nycbusdriver]

The companies arent merged, you dont work for AA's flight department and cant until the AOCs are combined.

 
AOC status has nothing at all to do with contract issues.  Funny, I thought YOU, of all people, would know that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
Going to be an interesting year, but then again it hasn't been boring for a while.

 
After 25 years of an almost entirely downhill rollercoaster ride, could we possibly be on the uphill portion?
 
Appearances can be deceptive.

 

[700UW]

 
AOC status has nothing at all to do with contract issues.  Funny, I thought YOU, of all people, would know that.

The Operating Certificate doesnt go with your CBA, that between the FAA and the airlines.

 

[Pi brat]

The Operating Certificate doesnt go with your CBA, that between the FAA and the airlines.

I think Captains Bular and Hogg are staying on until the joint ops certificate, but that doesn't mean they will really be making the big decisions.

 

[snapthis]

Once again you need to be reminded that suit was dismissed simply because it was filed in the wrong court just like the Wake was dismissed for ripeness.

Yet, when faced with identical results, you somehow find victory for yourselves in the one then contradict yourselves by arguing loss for USAPA in the other.

Heads we win tails you lose - the West way.

You lost because the allegations were unfounded. Period
 
End of story.
[SIZE=11.5pt]It is no surprise, then, that the conduct USAPA alleges [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]closely resembles conduct we have found not to demonstrate [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]continuity after HJ. Inc. See, e.g., GEInv. Partners, 247 F.3d at 549 (finding no continuity where the defendants' "single [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]goal" was to fraudulently inflate the value of and then sell [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]their controlling interest in a company); Menasco, 886 F.2d at [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]684 (finding no continuity where "[defendants' actions were [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]narrowly directed towards a single . . . goal," "involved but [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]one set of victims," and took place over a relatively short [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]period of time).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11.5pt]Because the appropriate "commonsensical, fact-specific" examination of the allegations in USAPA's complaint fails to yield a pattern of racketeering activity, USAPA has failed to [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]state a cognizable RICO claim. See Menasco, 886 F 2d at 684. [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]Accordingly, the district court did not err in granting the [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]defendants' motion to dismiss the complaint.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]IV.[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=11.5pt]We can quickly dispose of USAPA's remaining [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]contentions—that the district court erred in denying it leave [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]to amend its complaint and in refusing to grant it injunctive [/SIZE][SIZE=11.5pt]relief.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.5pt]^^^^^^^^^^4th Circuit^^^^^^^^^[/SIZE]

 

[traderjake]

 
 We tried to warn those AA folks: "Meet the new boss, same (worse?) than the old boss."

 
With USAPA's reputation why wouldn't they believe us?