Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

I was asking pia 1984, pay attention please.  You interupted, 

I'll gently suggest a break be taken here Brother. There's possibly a printing shop in Hell putting out fresh editions of Dale Carnegie's evil twin's book of "How to piss off even your friends and give comfort to your enemies" as we speak...just sayin'. I want Hummel gone. Any/all cases that can be made for doing so, with properly sensible explanation, serve only to help that happen. Exploring the issues fully and in a reasonable way are necessary determinants to what will actually happen, one way or another. People have both the reasoned Right to vote as they please, and the equally reasonable Right to hear WTF's actually going on/what's/who's involved/what's the "plan"/etc from both sides.

 

[Graceson]

I'm leaning towards voting No for the recall. It seems like a moot point to do it. Once the APA become our CBA, he will be gone anyway. I would think the current BPR members will stay in their current roles under the APA as reps for our domiciles (Not sure what happens in DCA though).
 
The MOU is signed and will be set in motion on Monday. And according to the Merger Committee, the East list and the West list will be used for integration with the APA. So a three way like I thought all along... I would think this is what the pilots want. With Gary staying President, things should progress along these lines.
 
A recall opens a lot of uncertainties at a critical time. Who will become President, and more importantly, what does the new President and his/her supporters think can be accomplished other than what is already happening? A re-do of the MOU? Not gonna happen.
 
Surely a new President would have the ability to completely change our Merger Committee and their current objectives. Why would we want that?
 
The West reps are VERY supportive about getting Gary out (And Steve). Why is that? What does the West see as a benefit for a successful recall?
 
Just wondering...

It shouldn't be a decision taken lightly. But I have to ask myself if this is a billion dollar enterprise, how should this be managed from a strict, "it's not personal, just business" point of view.

If I have an executive who quietly meets with pilots in private asides outside the carefully structured formality and disciplines of corporate controls, checks, and balances, that,s a huge red flag. If you don't value the input of the team I've hired to work with you then I'll likely question the 360 degree perspective you claim you might have that others were specifically appointed to assist you with. And in the absence of my team you exclusively conclude mutual agreements and understandings that you feel is a good fit for my company. Further, without solicited debate or opinion from my team, you publicly advocate for labor at a price of millions...perhaps billions over time. Then my executive again becomes publicly confrontational when members of my team attempts an effort to recover millions this executive singularly ceded to labor...

If under scrutiny, my executive reported to me that he however had the full confidence and support of the labor group which should thus shed all doubts of talent and resourcefulness, then Id have to make the though decision.

If Parker had an executive that conducted himself as Gary did, he would first be asked to voluntarily resign his title or Parker would indeed make the decision for him...

He's lost the trust I placed in him and likely cost us plenty with errors of commission and omission. Parker would reassign him to a position where teamwork is less vital.

Liking him, respecting his sacrifice, appreciating his willingness to step into a tough role during tough times, wishing him and his family all the best... these are personal sentiments.

But with this billion dollar enterprise, it's strictly business. I vote yes to recall.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I'll gently suggest a break be taken here Brother. There's possibly a printing shop in Hell putting out fresh editions of Dale Carnegie's evil twin's book of "How to piss off even your friends and give comfort to your enemies" as we speak...just sayin'. I want Hummel gone. Any/all cases that can be made for doing so, with properly sensible explanation, serve only to help that happen.

Carnegie's evil twin is the guy Claxon will support to replace Hummel.

 

[Claxon]

west pilots, I know someone who would like the personal ID info of all East pilots, is that for sale? (sarcasm)
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202001665395881

 

[Piedmont1984]

It shouldn't be a decision taken lightly. But I have to ask myself if this is a billion dollar enterprise, how should this be managed from a strict, "it's not personal, just business" point of view.
If I have an executive who quietly meets with pilots in private asides outside the carefully structured formality and disciplines of corporate controls, checks, and balances, that,s a huge red flag. If you don't value the input of the team I've hired to work with you then I'll likely question the 360 degree perspective you claim you might have that others were specifically appointed to assist you with. And in the absence of my team you exclusively conclude mutual agreements and understandings that you feel is a good fit for my company. Further, without solicited debate or opinion from my team, you publicly advocate for labor at a price of millions...perhaps billions over time. Then he again becomes publicly confrontational attempts an effort to recover millions he'd ceded to labor.
If under scrutiny, my executive reported to me that he however had the full confidence and support of the labor group which should thus shed all doubts of talent and resourcefulness, then Id have to make the though decision.
If Parker had an executive that conducted himself as Gary did, he would first be asked to voluntarily resign his title or Parker would indeed make the decision for him...
He's lost the trust I placed in him and likely cost us plenty with errors of commission and omission. Parker would reassign him to a position where teamwork is less vital.
Liking him, respecting his sacrifice, appreciating his willingness to step into a tough role during tough times, wishing him and his family all the best... these are personal sentiments.
But with this billion dollar enterprise, it's strictly business. I vote yes to recall.

Would Parker be okay with it if Gary got a DUI 🙂 But seriously, certain members of the BPR got us the retro pay and for that I am grateful. But Hummel got us the MOU to begin with. The relationship between Cleary and managment was far too toxic to have achieved what Hummel did. No MOU, no retro pay. And if the BPR had their way a year ago, no MOU vote.

 

[EastUS1]

Carnegie's evil twin is the guy Claxon will support to replace Hummel.

 
LOL....We could and have done worse methinks. Hummel's presidency fails to impress me at any level. I simply want the frikkin' details. Cue "Friday"..."Just the facts sir/ma'am" 🙂 The timing, direct basis for, grand plans of either side, etc, are all worth putting out to any/all voters...period.  To do otherwise merely foments mistrust and fosters further BS. Im past sick of this increasingly BS "secret government" crap within the union. Yeah...I know; I "go all idealistic" sometimes...and yet chastise others for Arrested Development issues. 😉 If a purely visceral vote's to be taken; my reflexes are all for the recall, but I don't expect anyone to be of like mind, without the facts being presented...and I'd prefer to hear any/all arguments myself as well, to say the least.

 

[EastUS1]

It shouldn't be a decision taken lightly. But I have to ask myself if this is a billion dollar enterprise, how should this be managed from a strict, "it's not personal, just business" point of view.

If I have an executive who quietly meets with pilots in private asides outside the carefully structured formality and disciplines of corporate controls, checks, and balances, that,s a huge red flag. If you don't value the input of the team I've hired to work with you then I'll likely question the 360 degree perspective you claim you might have that others were specifically appointed to assist you with. And in the absence of my team you exclusively conclude mutual agreements and understandings that you feel is a good fit for my company. Further, without solicited debate or opinion from my team, you publicly advocate for labor at a price of millions...perhaps billions over time. Then my executive again becomes publicly confrontational when members of my team attempts an effort to recover millions this executive singularly ceded to labor...

If under scrutiny, my executive reported to me that he however had the full confidence and support of the labor group which should thus shed all doubts of talent and resourcefulness, then Id have to make the though decision.

If Parker had an executive that conducted himself as Gary did, he would first be asked to voluntarily resign his title or Parker would indeed make the decision for him...

He's lost the trust I placed in him and likely cost us plenty with errors of commission and omission. Parker would reassign him to a position where teamwork is less vital.

Liking him, respecting his sacrifice, appreciating his willingness to step into a tough role during tough times, wishing him and his family all the best... these are personal sentiments.

But with this billion dollar enterprise, it's strictly business. I vote yes to recall.

 
An apt summary sir,  most especially within your observation: "If I have an executive who quietly meets with pilots in private asides outside the carefully structured formality and disciplines of corporate controls, checks, and balances, that,s a huge red flag."...And here we've a not-even-then-seated, union president hieing himself hence to Tempe...and was discussing...umm..WHAT exactly? That being just for starters here.

 

[Graceson]

Would Parker be okay with it if Gary got a DUI 🙂

That's my point. Business is sacred to Parker. He could give a s#@t about personal problems if the golden boy takes care of business...

 

[Piedmont1984]

To all you angry, hate driven, grudge inspired, axe to grind, living the last war, sad sacks - a ballad in your honor. (pay attention Claxon)

http://vimeo.com/6483548

 

[EastUS1]

...the last war, ...

 

 
Seriously? Sigh!...Puhleaze...Not another closet "spartan" case...? 🙂

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

It shouldn't be a decision taken lightly. But I have to ask myself if this is a billion dollar enterprise, how should this be managed from a strict, "it's not personal, just business" point of view.

If I have an executive who quietly meets with pilots in private asides outside the carefully structured formality and disciplines of corporate controls, checks, and balances, that,s a huge red flag. If you don't value the input of the team I've hired to work with you then I'll likely question the 360 degree perspective you claim you might have that others were specifically appointed to assist you with. And in the absence of my team you exclusively conclude mutual agreements and understandings that you feel is a good fit for my company. Further, without solicited debate or opinion from my team, you publicly advocate for labor at a price of millions...perhaps billions over time. Then my executive again becomes publicly confrontational when members of my team attempts an effort to recover millions this executive singularly ceded to labor...

If under scrutiny, my executive reported to me that he however had the full confidence and support of the labor group which should thus shed all doubts of talent and resourcefulness, then Id have to make the though decision.

If Parker had an executive that conducted himself as Gary did, he would first be asked to voluntarily resign his title or Parker would indeed make the decision for him...

He's lost the trust I placed in him and likely cost us plenty with errors of commission and omission. Parker would reassign him to a position where teamwork is less vital.

Liking him, respecting his sacrifice, appreciating his willingness to step into a tough role during tough times, wishing him and his family all the best... these are personal sentiments.

But with this billion dollar enterprise, it's strictly business. I vote yes to recall.

Thanx , And I am above everyone else attitude, BUCK D, nixed in the PHL election at the last minute for no medical!, (flying one month later) But GARY staying in his position , I am sorry the guy needs to go, trust is the issue and he is a serious habitual violator!

 

[Phoenix]

What would you care to bet Silver isn't going to dismiss this on the 9th based upon your logic?

Your hope is built on your assumption that she will have a dismissive attitude toward the contract you voted for. If she chooses to be as dismissive as you are she will share the same privilege of being corrected. 🙂 but the privilege will cost her less than it will cost you. 😀

 

[EastUS1]

Thanx , And I am above everyone else attitude, BUCK D, nixed in the PHL election at the last minute for no medical!, (flying one month later) But GARY staying in his position , I am sorry the guy needs to go, trust is the issue and he is a serious habitual violator!

 
Indeed. Trust IS the issue, and I've seen nothing on which to offer, base or imagine such to date. Too much has simply "smelled bad", without even the least explanation(s) offered.
 
"POLITICIAN, n. An eel in the fundamental mud upon which the superstructure of organized society is reared. When we wriggles he mistakes the agitation of his tail for the trembling of the edifice. As compared with the statesman, he suffers the disadvantage of being alive." Ambrose Bierce

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

To all you angry, hate driven, grudge inspired, axe to grind, living the last war, sad sacks - a ballad in your honor. (pay attention Claxon)

 

Angry, hate driven, grudge inspired, axe to grind, etc, etc , etc, ?  Last time I checked this was a free country with freedom of speech and thought, maybe your kids are correct, you like arguing for the sake of arguing, I think they might think your the sad sack?

 

[Phoenix]

Your Mom says get off the computer and quit bothering people.

Your mom told you to share the teddy bear. When you upgrade you can afford to buy your own. Is this where we get some pics about short people jokes?