Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

 
With the win in our lawsuit in 2011, it's not just a "claim" anymore. The win proved we were screwed by ALPO and we are now looking forward to the damages trial.
 
Now back to the subject of this thread!

I don't disagree with you.  I do agree that, in fact, you WERE screwed which is why transportation workers now have McCaskill-Bond.

 

[Phoenix]

You have got to be kidding me! You show me anything that has been claimed to be "ironclad" in the last few years that has been. I heard that about our pension once. And DOH.

You want to see something "iron clad"??

We voted for it....

"14. USAPA agrees to waive all change of control provisions....."

 

[Res Judicata]

You have got to be kidding me! You show me anything that has been claimed to be "ironclad" in the last few years that has been. I heard that about our pension once. And DOH.

We ratified our temporary CBA remember? We traded your CoC for the nic.

 

[nevergiveup]

Hummel will shortly be addressing many of the issues the BPR has used to undermine his office and authority. The recall should fall flat. Keep in mind that the president is not beholden to any individual BPR member. The president must comply with BPR resolutions made as a body, not individual demands by BPR members with an axe to grind. Let's wait for Hummel to respond to these allegations and then vote accordingly. The only danger to Hummel and Bradford is pilot apathy. Get the word out.

'84

Given Mr. Hummel's current status, can he be the USAPA president according to USAPA policy?

 

[traderjake]

Instead of saying he's lost it, why not counter his claims with facts? This is a big vote at a critical time, lets have real information.

 
He doesn't need facts, his decisions are based on Hate.

 

[EastUS1]

Hummel will shortly be addressing many of the issues the BPR has used to undermine his office and authority.

 
Hmm....Sounds a wee bit "Imperial" as phrased. His "office and authority" is supposedly established to just frikkin' do what the membership wants, but I'm all ears to hear what everyone concerned has to say on both sides of this. If anyone's actually cozying up to PHX reps' agendas...I definitely want to hear WHY, and not just in some vague BS terms.

 

[luvthe9]

Given Mr. Hummel's current status, can he be the USAPA president according to USAPA policy?

NO

 

[prechilill]

Gary Hummel is a great president/ he will be missed!

 

[Res Judicata]

Gary Hummel is a great president/ he will be missed!

He will. However, just imagine how entertaining an omnipotent, unleashed Bill McKee is going to be. Thank God the west is getting our own independent seat away from these maniacs at MB. Watch the East permanently devalue the rest of their careers by making the final colossal blunder. I'm thinking the Nic, minus the protected 519 is reasonable at this point. Just slide the entire nic list up 519 positions. There's no nic mandated fences anyway. They've expired and we've been under a single certificate for years and years. The East can always be counted on for one thing: Fking things up in a manner and magnitude heretofore thought to be impossible.

Welcome Bill, glory awaits you.

 

[high*flyer]

And I'm thinking protect the wide-body flying... Sorry you don't have any.... And fences....you won't have to worry about those things falling from trees called leaves!

 

[high*flyer]

Leafs....

 

[Res Judicata]

And I'm thinking protect the wide-body flying... Sorry you don't have any.... And fences....you won't have to worry about those things falling from trees called leaves!

Au Contrarire. On Monday we are one. We have as many wb as you do.

 

[N924PS]

Besides reneging on a mutually agreed to arbitration process, the 7 year delay in obtaining a joint CBA has prevented West pilots from realizing their share of E190 flying, B757 flying and their share of any additional widebody flying created as a result of the AW/US merger.
 
I believe USAirways has taken delivery of 12 additional A330's since the merger, with more on order including A350 deliveries. Airplanes that would never have been on the property absent the merger. West pilots have every right to a share of that additional widebody flying. You seem to forget there WAS a merger.
 
Several pilots have posited that APA will be delighted to negotiate an integrated seniority list with USAPA. I disagree and believe this will play out in arbitration several years down the road. As in McCaskill-Bond. There simply no way the AA pilots will allow a 25 year seniority East pilot F/O to be merged DOH with a 25 year seniority AA Widebody Captain. No condition or restriction could be crafted to mitigate that disparity. The AA/US ISL will go much like UA/CO, DL/NW. Sorry. No DOH in 2007 and no DOH now.
 
At least while the continuing drama "As The Turbine Turns" plays out, East and West are finally getting long overdue raises. However, along with that comes a change in contractual language in many areas, many not as good as what we have lived under for much of our careers at USAirways or America West. Lots "TBD" going forward.
 
Unfortunately, and as is highlighted yet again by the latest USAPA infighting, we will never present a unified front in any negotiation and  thus will never have a real lever or hammer to wield against management or the APA. I too will welcome APA as my bargaining agent and look forward to becoming an American Airlines pilot.

 

[Reed Richards]

Besides reneging on a mutually agreed to arbitration process, the 7 year delay in obtaining a joint CBA has prevented West pilots from realizing their share of E190 flying, B757 flying and their share of any additional widebody flying created as a result of the AW/US merger.
 
I believe USAirways has taken delivery of 12 additional A330's since the merger, with more on order including A350 deliveries. Airplanes that would never have been on the property absent the merger. West pilots have every right to a share of that additional widebody flying. You seem to forget there WAS a merger.
 
Several pilots have posited that APA will be delighted to negotiate an integrated seniority list with USAPA. I disagree and believe this will play out in arbitration several years down the road. As in McCaskill-Bond. There simply no way the AA pilots will allow a 25 year seniority East pilot F/O to be merged DOH with a 25 year seniority AA Widebody Captain. No condition or restriction could be crafted to mitigate that disparity. The AA/US ISL will go much like UA/CO, DL/NW. Sorry. No DOH in 2007 and no DOH now.
 
At least while the continuing drama "As The Turbine Turns" plays out, East and West are finally getting long overdue raises. However, along with that comes a change in contractual language in many areas, many not as good as what we have lived under for much of our careers at USAirways or America West. Lots "TBD" going forward.
 
Unfortunately, and as is highlighted yet again by the latest USAPA infighting, we will never present a unified front in any negotiation and  thus will never have a real lever or hammer to wield against management or the APA. I too will welcome APA as my bargaining agent and look forward to becoming an American Airlines pilot.

"I got mine."  RR

 

[Keroseneuser]

From the data I have seen east and APA match up pretty close in the DOH department.   Their Junior Captain is a 1993 hire on the MD 80.    Our Junior Bus guy is an 89 I think,  or probably will be soon.
 
Your talking about a 25 year f/o pairing up with a 25 year WB Capt.DOH wise, I don't think is much of an issues.    I think their WB left seaters are like ours, much more senior than that for the most part.
 
This info is from what I can pull from the net and friends at AA.    Very top of list is a bit different but from the info I have from the couple AA guys I know from a previous life, the middle is not too far off.
 
In my case I don't bid the max my seniority will hold right now,  no interest in doing international at the moment,  but my DOH would hold a junior WB line on the AA side and a Reserve W/B slot here.   Much less difference than I initially thought.
 
Of course to see the full picture you would have to lay both lists out side by side to see all the way down.   
 
With their junior Capt. a 93 hire I cannot see them taking any interest in a NIC,  that would most likely put that 93 guy junior to a 2004 west guy.
 
Guess we need to wait to see how the lists actually look side by side to be sure.