Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

You really love to qoute that, but it's always taken out of context. Yes, you can present any list, but presenting anything other than the Nic puts you on dangerous ground. You guys just don't seem to understand that is why the Nic is really not dead. You can't erase the fact that it happened. You can go in presenting DOH or something really crazy like fencing off the west (major failure to represent), but it will just be another mess.
As for the company withdrawing the appeal. They are not taking sides, so i don't think it's a surprise. There is now a set path to combining seniority, contrary to what you think, that's what they've wanted all along. It was Usapa that has been preventing a combined list and contract, not management.
Bean

What does "nullity" mean?

 

[traderjake]

Us Airways is withdrawing it's appeal in the declatory judgement case.  USAPA is free to use any senority list per judge silvers original ruling in DEC 12.
 
The NIC is dead and gone....  It will never be part of this property.
 

 
Let me help you out here:
 
 USAPA is free to negotiate any senority list (away from the Nicolau Award) per judge silvers original ruling in DEC 12, subject to DFR.
 
USAPA can't unilaterally create a seniority list outside negotiations with the company.

 

[Phoenix]

Let me help you out here:
 
 USAPA is free to negotiate any senority list (away from the Nicolau Award) per judge silvers original ruling in DEC 12, subject to DFR.
 
USAPA can't unilaterally create a seniority list outside negotiations with the company.

After all these years and million$, no one can come up with anything more original than "the union has a duty to fairly represent its members during negotiations with the company."

 

[traderjake]

All the millions it's cost East pilots in pay and court costs?

 

[Phoenix]

All the millions it's cost East pilots in pay and court costs?

Did you ever ask anyone to come up with anything more original than "The union has a duty to fairly represent the members during negotiations with the company."? I never asked for that.

I have always believed "The union has a duty to fairly represent its members during negotiations with the company."

Congratulations on your arrival.

 

[traderjake]

 You just have a problem with the definition of the word "fair".   

 

[Black Swan]

You really love to qoute that, but it's always taken out of context. Yes, you can present any list, but presenting anything other than the Nic puts you on dangerous ground. You guys just don't seem to understand that is why the Nic is really not dead. You can't erase the fact that it happened. You can go in presenting DOH or something really crazy like fencing off the west (major failure to represent), but it will just be another mess.
As for the company withdrawing the appeal. They are not taking sides, so i don't think it's a surprise. There is now a set path to combining seniority, contrary to what you think, that's what they've wanted all along. It was Usapa that has been preventing a combined list and contract, not management. They've just been taking advantage of the cheap labor.
Bean

Hi Bean,
I have to disagree with you on the obligation of anything Nicolau to USAPA. It has no ties to anything associated with it. Had ALPA remained you would be correct. The key was the fact the MAJORITY voted in a new representative. I do understand the West angst with the vote, but they were clearly warned at WYE this was a distinct possibility, yet failed to modify the list, especially the tail end of the East list. You were begging to get USAPA in when everyone saw that unbelievable ordering of a 17 yr East pilot with a West new hire.
So here we are. USAPA is on the property and Parker clearly threw the West under the bus.
Parker is the sneakiest and most cunning CEO yet. He played you guys unbelievably. The East pilots have always been taken advantage of by him. He lied to you guys and simply used you. Nothing more or less. You have a right to be angry, but you should have known better.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Yes, you can present any list, but presenting anything other than the Nic puts you on dangerous ground.

fencing off the west (major failure to represent)
Bean

I think your first statement would have held water prior to the MOU but is no longer valid as the TA has been replaced.

As to fencing off the West, I see this as the MAJOR hurdle to the 'slotting by equipment and status' comments so flippantly bantered around here.

Hasn't been thought through and will not fly.

 

[Phoenix]

You just have a problem with the definition of the word "fair".

Not at all. Fair is fair.

And 98% says everything, unless the paragons of integrity voted with deceitful intentions.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You guys just don't seem to understand that is why the Nic is really not dead. You can't erase the fact that it happened. 

 
True.  We can't erase the fact that the Confederate States of America happened, either.  Their capital was in Richmond, VA.  Maybe you should organize a protest march in Richmond over the Nic.  Yeah....that's the ticket!

 

[nycbusdriver]

 You just have a problem with the definition of the word "fair".   

 
There's really little argument over the "definition" of the word, "fair."  It's easily found in any dictionary.
 
The problem is with the perception of the concept of "fair."

 

[EastUS1]

I can see what you are doing with Eric's videos. Wouldn't you think they might have the opposite effect than your desired one?

 
Seriously!?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Hi Bean,
I have to disagree with you on the obligation of anything Nicolau to USAPA. It has no ties to anything associated with it. Had ALPA remained you would be correct. The key was the fact the MAJORITY voted in a new representative. I do understand the West angst with the vote, but they were clearly warned at WYE this was a distinct possibility, yet failed to modify the list, especially the tail end of the East list. You were begging to get USAPA in when everyone saw that unbelievable ordering of a 17 yr East pilot with a West new hire.
So here we are. USAPA is on the property and Parker clearly threw the West under the bus.
Parker is the sneakiest and most cunning CEO yet. He played you guys unbelievably. The East pilots have always been taken advantage of by him. He lied to you guys and simply used you. Nothing more or less. You have a right to be angry, but you should have known better.

 
The westholes went into this mess with eyes wide open.  The warnings went out at Wye River, but they were of the mindset so well summarized on this forum: "You won't get 200 cards."  They bet that the east pilots could not muster the orgnization and the abillity to get a new union certified.  I don't blame them.  Ousting ALPA was not something that was ever done easily, and this was a pilot group attached to ALPA for over 50 years.  I would have taken the same gamble, I think.  I just would have stopped whining long ago once I had lost the bet.

 

[EastUS1]

American pilots have seen the new age Cat3 Productions. They are well aware the west pilots are not to be trusted and will side with management.

 
I would think so as well. I can't even imagine anyone at APA, after viewing those, coming away with ANY kind of positive impression of the group, to say the very least.

 

[EastUS1]

"the West Pilots prefer that the Court provide relief on that basis and not as a pure matter of law."
 
Says it all. Thanks for the laugh Snappy.

 
Pretty much. Silly me...I'd always thought courts were all about matters of law. Turns out they're now supposed to exist purely to indugle whatever the west pilots "prefer". You just can't make this kinda' stuff up.