Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

For any East pilot who thinks USAPA can still re-negotiate seniority with the Company:
 

"But USAPA inexplicably ignores the argument in US Airways’ opening brief – that negotiations under the Railway Labor Act betweenUS Airways and USAPA related to the US Airways-American pilots seniority integration have already been completed as reflected in Paragraph 10 of the Memorandum of Understanding (“MOU”). What remains is a negotiation/arbitration process among the pilots’ merger representatives to determine the order of pilots on the integrated seniority list – a matter as to which US Airways is required by the MOU to remain neutral. There will be no further negotiations under the Railway Labor Act between US Airways and USAPA regarding the formulation of the integrated seniority list; instead, the remaining​

process will be conducted by the pilots’ merger representatives under McCaskill-Bond." -- US Airways, in Document 277

 

[Hate2fly]

Looks like the west understood exactly what they were voting on. They chased the money!

Silver has to dismiss to save face.

Hate

 

[Pi brat]

Doc 281-2

Check out the west email chain.

Hate

Beat me to it. Check out the date.

 

[Hate2fly]

Before the vote!!!!!!!

 

[EastUS1]

 
The West chose??? Really??? 

 
Well...Let's see here: Your group's now apparently claiming a wholesale inability to even read, much less understand the MOU, unless your hands were gently held throughout the process, and moreover, that you sad victims were merely duped into almost universally voting in favor of it. Is that about right so far? OK then...From that it's not really any serious stretch of the imagination to equally assume that "you'se" never conciously chose any course of action, given the evidenced mental defects recently claimed by your lawyers in court. Sigh! I suspect all would (in fact must) now accept the implied argument that your group never was actually able to make cogent choices of any kind, and thus didn't. Feel better now? 🙂
 
Don't cast any inappropriate blame for the observations above. It is, after all, your group's own reps/lawyers who seek to paint "you'se" as nothing more than easily duped illiterates and hapless village idiots...and who am I to argue with their position? 😉

 

[Phoenix]

Doc 281-2

Check out the west email chain.

Hate

 
 
The West was better informed about the effect of this MOU than we were for crying out loud!
 
It is obvious they knew exactly what the MOU does to the TA, and they persuaded all their buddies to vote 98% in favor of it anyway....  The emails are hilarious!  They understood that the MOU kills the TA better than we East pilots did.  
 
Doc 281-4....
 

• "...We need assurances from the legal team that we are not signing our own death warrants!"
•  
• "The MOU is worthless especially when taking into account all we have suffered in one form or another for the past eight years.  The MOU is even more worthless without the Nicolau Award. It's as worthless as tits on a boar." 

 
I really like this one...
 

• "We should establish... unequivocally that the Wet pilots (despite how they vote on the MOU) are adamantly against any seniority integration process that does not include the NIC as the starting point..."
•  
• "If Marty and Andy are dead wrong... then why don't we fire them and give Mitch Vasin a call......" 
•  
• "It is clearly an attempt by USAPA to negate the transition agreement"...  "Marty seemed to be dismissive of this idea last night, but I think he's dead wrong, as well."
•  
• "In my mind, the question is not "should we be endorsing the MOU", but how soon we should seek an injunction against it."  
•  
• "Does this mean USAPA is smarter than we are?"  

 

[PullUp]

So when is Silver going to put this all to bed?

 

[Phoenix]

The West got punked by their own legal team. 
 
 

Leonidas Update February 7, 2013
 
On Friday, February First, Leonidas, LCC published an update encouraging West pilots to consider voting to ratify the MOU in light of the fact that we do not believe it harmful to our mission of protecting and enforcing the Nicolau Award.  Here are additional advantages to passing the MOU....
 
For the forgoing reasons, Leonidas, LCC strongly recommends that all West pilots vote in favor of the MOU in order to best protect ourselves from USAPA, the APA and whatever management prevails....
 
Voting for this MOU will not waive any future claim we may choose to make...
 

Leonidas Update February 1, 2013
 
Our attorneys believe the ratification of the MOU moves us toward the "ripeness"..
 
Do not hesitate to vote to ratify the MOU out of concern that it could impair our right to the implementation of the Nicolau.  It won't.  We recommend that West pilots vote yes if the want to see a merger with American according to the terms of the MOU.
 
Sincerely, 
Leonidas, LLC

 
"We recommend that West pilots vote yes if the want to see a merger with American according to the terms of the MOU."   Sincerely, Leonidas, LLC
 
Why is Leonidas an LLC, and why did they disavow everything they said and replace it with "according to the terms of the MOU"?  

 

[EastUS1]

 
 
 
The West was better informed about the effect of this MOU than we were for crying out loud!
 
It is obvious they knew exactly what the MOU does to the TA, and they persuaded all their buddies to vote 98% in favor of it anyway....  The emails are hilarious!  They understood that the MOU kills the TA better than we East pilots did.  
 
Doc 281-4....
 

• "...We need assurances from the legal team that we are not signing our own death warrants!"
•  
• "The MOU is worthless especially when taking into account all we have suffered in one form or another for the past eight years.  The MOU is even more worthless without the Nicolau Award. It's as worthless as tits on a boar." 

 
I really like this one...
 

• "We should establish... unequivocally that the Wet pilots (despite how they vote on the MOU) are adamantly against any seniority integration process that does not include the NIC as the starting point..."
•  
• "If Marty and Andy are dead wrong... then why don't we fire them and give Mitch Vasin a call......" 
•  
• "It is clearly an attempt by USAPA to negate the transition agreement"...  "Marty seemed to be dismissive of this idea last night, but I think he's dead wrong, as well."
•  
• "In my mind, the question is not "should we be endorsing the MOU", but how soon we should seek an injunction against it."  
•  
• "Does this mean USAPA is smarter than we are?"  

 

 
I'd not seen those yet....Wow! 🙂

 

[PullUp]

LLC is an abbreviation for "limited liability corporation". It means that the only assets that someone can sue for are the LLC's, not the individual(s) who owns the LLC.
They are a good way to form a small business and protect your personal money while doing so. 
It is very easy to initiate and form a LLC, as opposed to say, a non-profit organization. I would imagine a non-profit requires more paperwork and a vetting by a govt. agency.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

 
 

• "It is clearly an attempt by USAPA to negate the transition agreement"...  "Marty seemed to be dismissive of this idea last night, but I think he's dead wrong, as well."

Marty's getting paid one way or the other, n'est pas?

 

[Hate2fly]

Make sure you look through all of the docs. Look at the names on the emails......

Hate

 

[Portly Dorman]

 
Well...Let's see here: Your group's now apparently claiming a wholesale inability to even read, much less understand the MOU, unless your hands were gently held throughout the process, and moreover, that you sad victims were merely duped into almost universally voting in favor of it. Is that about right so far? OK then...From that it's not really any serious stretch of the imagination to equally assume that "you'se" never conciously chose any course of action, given the evidenced mental defects recently claimed by your lawyers in court. Sigh! I suspect all would (in fact must) now accept the implied argument that your group never was actually able to make cogent choices of any kind, and thus didn't. Feel better now? 🙂
 
Don't cast any inappropriate blame for the observations above. It is, after all, your group's own reps/lawyers who seek to paint "you'se" as nothing more than easily duped illiterates and hapless village idiots...and who am I to argue with their position? 😉

 
My point was the east has never needed the west to get a contract, the east voluntarily has stayed on LOA93.  You have always had the numerical advantage to get a new contract yet you never did.
 
Why?
 
Just askin'. 

 

[PullUp]

 
My point was the east has never needed the west to get a contract, the east voluntarily has stayed on LOA93.  You have always had the numerical advantage to get a new contract yet you never did.
 
Why?
 
Just askin'. 

Give it a rest. After all this time, you don't know the history here? How the company refused to negotiate because they 'needed' the seniority issue settled first?
There was never a TA. Thus never a vote. 
I wanted a new contract. It was apparent the company did not - and they shrewdly used the pilots' situation to their full advantage.
They are doing the same thing now in case you haven't noticed.
Cheers.

 

[Pi brat]

"Mark,

I sure hope you are correct. The part of your theory that bothers me is that yes, the company accepted the Nic, but there are conditions in the TA that need to be satisfied in order for it to be utilized. If the MOU does away with the TA, then those conditions are never met.
 
Pat"
 
Sounds like Pat was thinking like an eastie. Bet they shouted him down real quick.