Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Thank you.

Even Orville and Wilber would point out that the first flight in history was devoid of a taxi segment, but did include a checklist before take off. Who dared to presume an improvement to that?

 
The Wright brothers. That was the era of paper bidding and DOH.

 

[luvthe9]

The Wright brothers. That was the era of paper bidding and DOH.

And long before international scabbing began.."

 

[Phoenix]

The Wright brothers. That was the era of DOH.

Yes. And again I ask, who would presume to improve upon that?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

 
The Wright brothers. That was the era of paper bidding and DOH.

Yea we get it! Because the bicycle company was not the impression to commercial aviation  compared to AWA you "DESERVE" to be slotted ahead of ORVILLE and WILBUR!

 

[im back..!!]

The Wright brothers. That was the era of paper bidding and DOH.

If you dont like DOH, then I assume you would'nt mind "Direct Entry Captains"..?

 

[nycbusdriver]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The Nine month CQT cycle was coming here anyway. Just had an AMR guy in the jump seat yesterday, he said it is a maneuvers type sim one time and a loft the next, kind of like what we had in the past. Guess with SMS they want us there for training more than once a year. Too bad about our Instructors, lots of quality guys with talent going back to the line.  Was on board with DOH (he brought it up) with restrictions, but was really concerned about senior F/Os here taking his soon to be W/B right seat.  Nice discussion all around. Just one guy, but it gives me hope.  RR[/SIZE]

 
I don't think the AA pilots have much to worry about.  DOH with good fences and an equitable distribution of new flying (incuding widebody) for several years should put their concerns to rest.  (Only the extremely rare whack-a-doodle on the east thinks he/she is entitled to immediately have a cockpit seat in a 777.)   If USAPA does the right thing, and agrees to fences around equipment and bases for at least 5-7 years, the AA pilots will never see one of those "senior F/Os" in one of their 777s, or checking crew mail in DFW or ORD, in numbers great enough to impact their own positions.

 

[nycbusdriver]

[SIZE=10.5pt]The Nine month CQT cycle was coming here anyway. Just had an AMR guy in the jump seat yesterday, he said it is a maneuvers type sim one time and a loft the next, kind of like what we had in the past. Guess with SMS they want us there for training more than once a year. Too bad about our Instructors, lots of quality guys with talent going back to the line.  Was on board with DOH (he brought it up) with restrictions, but was really concerned about senior F/Os here taking his soon to be W/B right seat.  Nice discussion all around. Just one guy, but it gives me hope.  RR[/SIZE]

 
The 9 month CQT cycle will be fine as long as the ridiculous smoke hood and BOB exercises will only happen every OTHER visit.  Maybe with ground school every 9 months they will have enough time to cover important stuff rather than the FAA and TSA BS.

 

[Reed Richards]

 
I don't think the AA pilots have much to worry about.  DOH with good fences and an equitable distribution of new flying (incuding widebody) for several years should put their concerns to rest.  (Only the extremely rare whack-a-doodle on the east thinks he/she is entitled to immediately have a cockpit seat in a 777.)   If USAPA does the right thing, and agrees to fences around equipment and bases for at least 5-7 years, the AA pilots will never see one of those "senior F/Os" in one of their 777s, or checking crew mail in DFW or ORD, in numbers great enough to impact their own positions.

[SIZE=10.5pt]You must have had a hidden mike on us..that is exactly the sentiments we shared in our discussion with the APA guy. I realize there are over 10K more souls that might have differing opinions at AMR, but I will bet most agree what you just said. Of course there are also those AMR guys that prechilli goes “down the airport” to talk to on her days off. They all fully support the West Class and the Nic. RR[/SIZE]

 

[nycbusdriver]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You must have had a hidden mike on us..[/SIZE]

 
Yes, it's true.  I am an NSA operative.  Please don't tell anyone.

 

[EastUS1]

nycbusdriver, on 23 Nov 2013 - 8:17 PM, said:
I don't think the AA pilots have much to worry about.  DOH with good fences and an equitable distribution of new flying (incuding widebody) for several years should put their concerns to rest.  (Only the extremely rare whack-a-doodle on the east thinks he/she is entitled to immediately have a cockpit seat in a 777.)   If USAPA does the right thing, and agrees to fences around equipment and bases for at least 5-7 years, the AA pilots will never see one of those "senior F/Os" in one of their 777s, or checking crew mail in DFW or ORD, in numbers great enough to impact their own positions.

[SIZE=10.5pt]You must have had a hidden mike on us..that is exactly the sentiments we shared in our discussion with the APA guy. I realize there are over 10K more souls that might have differing opinions at AMR, but I will bet most agree what you just said. Of course there are also those AMR guys that prechilli goes “down the airport” to talk to on her days off. They all fully support the West Class and the Nic. RR[/SIZE]

 
That's pretty much my take as well gentlemen. Based on any of the conversations I've had with long-time friends at American; I'd expect some degree of reasonable interaction with the APA. Those folks appear to be equally disgusted with all the post 9-11 corporate rapine, and just want to get on with things and move towards a better future...well...unless that's somehow all just spin, and they've actually some secret little cabal of "spartans" that mysteriously run the place, that've lived their entire lives just waiting for the chance to enthrone their fellows in AWA. 😉 Of course I can't speak for prechill's supposed friends.....

 

[Claxon]

snapthis quote on page 121
 
"We'll have to agree to disagree as we have in the past.
 
Why didn't Lakefield raise the funds to pull US Airways out of the hole independent of a mergre with HP?
 
However it happened, the arbitrator (nicolau) looked at your argument and the West pilot arguments and came to the conclusion that one company was healthier than the other."
snapthis
 
 
 
snapthis? Another arbitrator in a USAirways, awa seniority dispute did not agree with nicolau.  You brought this subject up, your thoughts please sir?
 
"From the evidence, it is clear enough that the merger with AWA was a meaningful factor in U.S. Airway’s emergence from bankruptcy. Together, the two companies were able to attract investments that, operating alone, they might not have secured. However, West’s claim that U.S. Airways emerged from bankruptcy “only because it [was] acquired by a stronger enterprise”10 is reflected neither in the KPMG audit report (cited by West)11 nor in any other portion of the evidence. Instead, each carrier had something to contribute. Airways, for example, was much larger. It served almost twice as many destinations as AWA and carried twice the number of passengers.12 Airways has substantially more cash on hand, following the merger agreement."
 
Richard Bloch, ESQ
 
http://jamhoff.com/PDFs/ArbitratorDecisionAward.pdf

 

[EastUS1]

I agree. We always used a flow of some sort or another but I have always preferred the before start, after start and taxi checklist as the primary method of assuring compliance rather than having to memorize and do the flows in exact sequence. I always thought that the less one had to memorize the smaller the chance of a mistake. How many airlines in the world do a TAXI check list rather than a before takeoff checklist?

Cheers,

Bob

 
I've never been able to make myself a fan of attempting flight through "muscle memory", versus thought/situational awareness/what-should-it-all-look-like-right-now?/etc, and firmly believe in the value of comprehensive checklists. Human beings make very poor automatons. My fairly brief tenure with Eastern, which did strongly embrace flows, left me wondering just how great an idea they were to depend on, especially with the tragedy of FLT 401 to consider. No magic "flow" means no one's paying direct attention to circumstances?/etc. We all know there's no perfect recipe against disaster, but hey!..How about we stick the stuff-that'll-otherwise-possibly-kill-you responses into memory, and leave much of the the rest to accessible checklists.

 

[EastUS1]

The truth is that it has been a pleasure seeing the end-of-usapa.

How does it feel to be associated with that failure?

Loser....

Guess who's smiling now.

 "Guess who's smiling now." At the passing of all this sorry mess? Pretty much everyone. If you're able to assume otherwise, well... I'd have to believe only the usual court jesters/mighty "spartans" would, even could do so. Can it even possibly be the actual case that you can imagine any out east will bemoan the passing of usapa and becoming part of the world's largest airline...instead of being stuck with naught but AWA? Seriously? Sigh! Honestly; just how truly stupid are "you'se"? 😉

 

[EastUS1]

If you can pull off your flows, perfectly, every time, that is no small feet🙂

 
Indeed LS...which should tell anyone everything they need to know about the efficacy of them. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Funny you should mention Crazy Ivan. I named my Russian (Belarus actually) after that very same maneuver. Not long after I got the tractor I shut it down and went in the house for 10 min. and when I came out Crazy Ivan was running and so was the starter which was so hot by then the paint was burning off. I figured the starter was toast but it actually lasted another 10 years. Belarus tractors.....crude but effective...kind of like a swift kick in the cohones!

Cheers,

Bob

 
Well Bob...as a man of Finnish heritage; you necessarily knew to expect at least some initial treachery from a Russkie beast. A break-in period was inevitable. 🙂