Nov/Dec 2013 Pilot Discussion

[PullUp]

Next up: Judge dismisses Addington case.

 

[330gramps]

This morning I got an e-mail from Scooter Kirby explaining all the benefits of the "new American" frequent flyer miles and master cards, visa cards, blah,blah,blah. I replied no thanks to anything he had to offer and furthermore I would non rev on the new airline but I will BUY my tickets on any other airline rather than give any thing else to the New American which is in reality the more recent USAirways. I had no problem telling him I was happy to retire from USAirways.
 
All the best,
 
Bob

Hi Bob,
With 13 months to go its going to be difficult to say I've retired from American.  I think when the time comes I'll just tell folks I retired from USAirways.
I might just say I retired from Allegheny since I was hired there...that will get the tongues waggin...
That Russian thing start in this cold?
 
Jim

 

[767one]

Hi Bob,
With 13 months to go its going to be difficult to say I've retired from American.  I think when the time comes I'll just tell folks I retired from USAirways.
I might just say I retired from Allegheny since I was hired there...that will get the tongues waggin...
That Russian thing start in this cold?
 
Jim

Jim,
 
The tractor lives for cold weather. Starts have been no problem down to 0degrees F. If  it's real cold I just pull the decompressor lever to open the valves, turn off the hydro pump and spin it up until I see oil pressure, push in the decompressor lever and it starts! Very similar to a BAC-111.
 
Bob

 

[snapthis]

 
Why so hostile? Didn't the nic become effective yesterday?...With "Billions in Damages" certainly due any second now?....Aren't all "you'se" dreams now coming true? 😉

 
No, not hostile, just disgusted by the half truths and outright lies.
The no---I mean yes crowd the binding in arbitration does not apply to us crowd, the Usapians. The Slick Willies of unionism. 
 
 
 
The transcripts show a pattern of evasive behavior of current USAPA VP, Stephen Bradford. 
 
Don Addington, et al. v. US Airline Pilots Association, et al.
Stephen Bradford March 19, 2009
 
A. There was a pilot who formed a website
that was called AAAPilots4fairness.com and people
signed up and used that website and out of that grew
a committee.
Q. What period of time are you talking about
here?
A. June, July.
Q. Of '07?
A. Yes.
Q. And the committee -- were you a member of
the committee?
A. No. I mean, I -- yes, I guess we called
it a committee and it related to that board because
that's where the board --
Q. Well --
A. That was the first web board that existed
that we could congregate on.
 
 
USAPAWATCH saw it as well...
 
 
USAPA has at various stages misstated law, facts, and procedural history with frequent recourse to the 'contradiction or confusion...produced by a medley of judicial phrases severed from their environment.  – The Honorable Judge Neil V. Wake
 
 
 
The following text reveals the context of the legal opinion from respected labor attorney Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan. Mr. Katzenbach’s firm was interviewed in May 2007 in the early stages of Mr. Bradford’s expedition to form a new organization, an organization with the singular goal of destroying the careers of the former America West pilots. Although the letter was marked confidential, in the fanaticism to gain support of the East pilots, this material was published on a public Web site thus piercing the normally ironclad veil of attorney/client privilege. As a result of this all too common recklessness and oversight within USAPA’s founding leadership, this letter was admitted into evidence and became an important component of the Addington trial and subsequent verdict. In the discussion, Mr. Katzenbach warned Mr. Bradford by stating,
 
[SIZE=14pt]...the language you use in setting up your new union and how you go about talking and writing about your solutions to this award can be used against you. You need to stress [t]he positives of the new union and not dwell on the award.  Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud[/SIZE]
 
http://usapawatch.com/2009/08/07/the-true-meaning-of-usapa-case-law--part-1.aspx?view=threaded

 

[EastUS1]

 
No, not hostile, just disgusted by the half truths and outright lies.
The no---I mean yes crowd the binding in arbitration does not apply to us crowd, the Usapians. The Slick Willies of unionism.
 
The transcripts show a pattern of evasive behavior of current USAPA VP, Stephen Bradford. 

 
There's an easy fix for your troubles there. Repeat "This is sparta!" a dozen times or so, then print up another batch of "Integrity Matters" T-shirts, and simply enjoy the rest of the day. 🙂

 

[Beancounter]

 
I am so delighted that I will never have to utter the words: "I am retired from US Airways."
 
I have waited, with worried anticipation, for December 9, 2013, since February, 1987.
 
 

 
Congrats! I understand what you're saying and I'm looking forward to being an American pilot, but I'm not ashamed of any of the airlines I worked for in the past. Well........ there was that time I worked under the name of Captain Mike Honcho. 🙂
 
Bean

 

[EastUS1]

 
Congrats! I'm looking forward to being an American pilot, but I'm not ashamed of any of the airlines I worked for in the past. Well........ there was that time I worked under the name of Captain Mike Honcho. 🙂
 
Bean

 
LOL OK Bean....There's gotta' be a good-fer-grins story per that last....but perhaps it's best I don't even ask. 🙂

 

[Beancounter]

 
LOL OK Bean....There's gotta' be a good-fer-grins story per that last....but perhaps it's best I don't even ask. 🙂

 
Yeah, you're probably right.  My wife tells people that when she met me I was a male whore and the commuter I was at was like a frat house.  I'm long past that phase, I'm very boring now, and my lifes that much better for it.
 
Bean

 

[Piedmont1984]

No, not hostile, just disgusted by the half truths and outright lies.
The no---I mean yes crowd the binding in arbitration does not apply to us crowd, the Usapians. The Slick Willies of unionism. 
 
 
 
The transcripts show a pattern of evasive behavior of current USAPA VP, Stephen Bradford. 
 
Don Addington, et al. v. US Airline Pilots Association, et al.
Stephen Bradford March 19, 2009
 
A. There was a pilot who formed a website
that was called AAAPilots4fairness.com and people
signed up and used that website and out of that grew
a committee.
Q. What period of time are you talking about
here?
A. June, July.
Q. Of '07?
A. Yes.
Q. And the committee -- were you a member of
the committee?
A. No. I mean, I -- yes, I guess we called
it a committee and it related to that board because
that's where the board --
Q. Well --
A. That was the first web board that existed
that we could congregate on.
 
 
USAPAWATCH saw it as well...
 
 
USAPA has at various stages misstated law, facts, and procedural history with frequent recourse to the 'contradiction or confusion...produced by a medley of judicial phrases severed from their environment.  – The Honorable Judge Neil V. Wake[/size]
 
 
 
The following text reveals the context of the legal opinion from respected labor attorney Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan. Mr. Katzenbach’s firm was interviewed in May 2007 in the early stages of Mr. Bradford’s expedition to form a new organization, an organization with the singular goal of destroying the careers of the former America West pilots. Although the letter was marked confidential, in the fanaticism to gain support of the East pilots, this material was published on a public Web site thus piercing the normally ironclad veil of attorney/client privilege. As a result of this all too common recklessness and oversight within USAPA’s founding leadership, this letter was admitted into evidence and became an important component of the Addington trial and subsequent verdict. In the discussion, Mr. Katzenbach warned Mr. Bradford by stating,
 
...the language you use in setting up your new union and how you go about talking and writing about your solutions to this award can be used against you. You need to stress [t]he positives of the new union and not dwell on the award.  Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud
 
http://usapawatch.com/2009/08/07/the-true-meaning-of-usapa-case-law--part-1.aspx?view=threaded

The quote above is nothing more than legal strategy being discussed between attorney and potential client. The so called pretext which you attribute to Bradford in forming USAPA was perhaps HIS rationale. However, a card drive followed by a representational vote was then required. These were formidable hurdles by themselves, in which there were 3000 different rationales for creating a new union. For example, the Nic did not hurt Bob, or nyc (or even myself that much). The award in question was, on its merits, onerous enough and deviated from existing ALPA merger policy to the extent that a challenge was justified. The courts will ultimately decide if the way in which this challenge was promulgated complied with the law.

In my humble opinion.

 

[nevergiveup]

   Freighterguynow
Member Since 05 Jan 2004
 
(Lottery winner in 2005)
 
You're pretty mouthy considering you were a freighterguy in 2004, one of the 33% on furlough prior to the acquisition in 2005. You did not bring a job, you brought a catastrophic reduction.
 
Dave Odell, who brought a job to the table is senior to you.
 
Hired, not aquired.
 
Now back in line and wait your turn on the arbitrated seniority list.
 
 
Case 2:10-cv-01570-ROS Document 151-2
 
Q. Let's move on to the -- we were talking about furloughs.
At the time that US Airways -- at the time of the merger we've
heard about the number of pilots, approximately 1,600 or so,
who were on furlough.
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Is that -- is there a term for that many pilots being on
 
furlough?
A. I think what you're referring to is in the USAPA C&Rs they
have Section VIII that's titled Catastrophic Reduction.
Q. What is a catastrophic reduction?
A. In other words, we have 25 percent of
our pilots furloughed.
 
 
They define catastrophic reduction as in the event of a
 
reduction to 75 percent.
Was US Airways at the time of the merger in a catastrophic
reduction mode?
A. Yes. They had -- that 1,691 represented 33 percent of
their pilot force at the time of the merger.
 
 

Snap, you are living in the past. Don't be one that whines about what could have been for the rest of your career! You are based in PHX where many wish they could be and you have a great future!

 

[snapthis]

Snap, you are living in the past. Don't be one that whines about what could have been for the rest of your career! You are based in PHX where many wish they could be and you have a great future!

Actually this is relevant to today.
 
I saw the same thing in court that I in Oct that I did with Bradford years ago. He's about as evasive as they come and frankly, I find it fitting that he's under threat of being recalled before APA takes the reins.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 ...but I'm not ashamed of any of the airlines I worked for in the past. ..
 
Bean

 
I gave every airline 100%, and intend to continue.  But I passionately disagree with your statement as it applies to me.
 
In 1987 we came under arrogant management, then clueless management, then competent, yet overwhelmingly greedy, management, then narcissistic ignorant management, then apathetic management, and finally marginally competent, but full-of-excuses, management.  
 
None of this animosity applies to the rank-and-file employees who were able to float this Titanic despite management.  Almost without exception, no matter which airline they started with, they have been wonderful colleagues and co-workers with whom I have enjoyed my work here.
 
After Tom Davis and Bill Howard (with Gordon Bethune waiting in the wings), I could never be proud of the circus acts at HQ over the last 26 years, nor wish to associate my retirement with those clowns.  Back in the day, there was only one airline to which I declined to apply.  Fate, though fickle for oh so long, has finally come through.

 

[Beancounter]

 
I gave every airline 100%, and intend to continue.  But I passionately disagree with your statement as it applies to me.
 
In 1987 we came under arrogant management, then clueless management, then competent, yet overwhelmingly greedy, management, then narcissistic ignorant management, then apathetic management, and finally marginally competent, but full-of-excuses, management.  
 
None of this animosity applies to the rank-and-file employees who were able to float this Titanic despite management.  Almost without exception, no matter which airline they started with, they have been wonderful colleagues and co-workers with whom I have enjoyed my work here.
 
After Tom Davis and Bill Howard (with Gordon Bethune waiting in the wings), I could never be proud of the circus acts at HQ over the last 26 years, nor wish to associate my retirement with those clowns.  Back in the day, there was only one airline to which I declined to apply.  Fate, though fickle for oh so long, has finally come through.

 
Well, I won't even pretend to know what you went through.  I was playing sports and hot roding cars in the late eighties ie high school.  It wasn't until an airline pilot bought the house next to my parents that I became interested in flying.  Guess which airline he flew for?  I did read an interesting article in the last couple days (I'd post it, but don't remember location).  It talked about how the CEO's of the airlines now, example: Delta, American, etc, are very different from the CEOs of the past.  The prior CEOs were very market share driven and looked at the short term.  Today's airline leaders are more numbers driven and focused long term.  While it may not always seem like a good thing, since our salaries are numbers 🙂 , it's good for our airlines and in turn good for us.
 
Bean

 

[john john]

AWA was a good airline.

America's Worst Airline?

We scoured tons of data on canceled flights, lost luggage, staff rudeness and more to find which carrier is worst at what. And the loser is…
… America West . Even in an industry rife with screwups, crummy service and dissembling, America West stands out as a paragon of badness. It ranks worst in customer complaints, worst in lost luggage, worst in cabin comfort and next-to-worst in on-time performance. It has one thing going for it: In denied boardings (bumping ticketed passengers because a flight is oversold), it is somewhat less bad than the average airline.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html

 

[Beancounter]

America's Worst Airline?

We scoured tons of data on canceled flights, lost luggage, staff rudeness and more to find which carrier is worst at what. And the loser is…
… America West . Even in an industry rife with screwups, crummy service and dissembling, America West stands out as a paragon of badness. It ranks worst in customer complaints, worst in lost luggage, worst in cabin comfort and next-to-worst in on-time performance. It has one thing going for it: In denied boardings (bumping ticketed passengers because a flight is oversold), it is somewhat less bad than the average airline.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html

 
Exactly, look at the date 06/11/01.  This is the airline Doug Parker was handed right before 9/11 hit.  Basically he was given the reigns to a poor airline right before the entire industry imploded.  I'd say he's done a damn fine job, especially considering the age he was when put in the CEO spot.  OK, I'll put away the pomp pomps before you all roast me.
 
Bean