Occupational Seniority

[WingNaPrayer]

I got a long drawn out panic email from a friend in MIA last night regarding an "occupational seniority" meeting she went to in MIA yesterday. I swear, I've read through it a half dozen times and I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell it's all about.

Did anyone attend that occupational seniority meeting that understands what its all about, and can explain it? If I'm reading this right, it does NOT look good, but I'm not about to jump to conclusions on something like this.

Feedback appreciated.

 

[jimntx]

Couldn't you cut and paste the email? You didn't have to include the address info. Now the rest of us will worry about what the heck is going on?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Can't. The email really contains too much stuff that would identify her. What I am seeing is that occupational seniority will change for those who have transfered from one group to another during their tenure. An employee may have 15 or 20 years with the company, but have transfered into a different work group as little as 2 or 3 years ago. That 2 or 3 year date becomes the Occupational Seniority date, which is used for bidding, and more importantly, layoffs. Someone who only has maybe 5 years with the company, but stayed in the same group, will have 5 years occupational senority, over the 15 or 20 year veteran who may only have 2 or 3 years in that group. The lower paid 5 year employee will outrank the 20 year higher paid employee when it comes to bidding, and will be further down the layoff list than the employee who may have 20 years with the company.

That is how it looks to me, I am still waiting for clarification and the documents that were handed out to them to be mailed to me so I can study them in better detail.

I want someone who has a better understanding to explain it, and hopefully tell me my interpretation is wrong. My friend in MIA has 26 years with the company, but changed groups 17 months ago. She's afraid she's going to get nailed in the next bid and eventually, when the after holiday layoffs begin, she's going to be a target and the company is going to be able to shed itself of a 26 year employee making maximum wage in favor of lesser seniority employees making much less.

Somebody please enlighten me, explain the new occupational senority plan, and tell me my interpretation is incorrect.

 

[410OhOne]

Couldn't you cut and paste the email? You didn't have to include the address info. Now the rest of us will worry about what the heck is going on?

Worry, why worry? We are all AFL-CIO union brothers and sisters. We all contract our services to this organization through the industrial unions in place. Thus everyone regardless of who they contract to ie. TWA, AA has equal rights in a merger or buyout and should have been dove-tailed according to their seniority.


DONT WORRY, BE HAPPY.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

While that may be true for union represented groups, it won't apply to the non union groups.

 

[wrx]

It's your lifesaver! Last one hired on property, first one to go in the event of furloughs. That pretty much sums it up.

 

[410OhOne]

It's your lifesaver! Last one hired on property, first one to go in the event of furloughs. That pretty much sums it up.

So it is age discrimination in a sense. A case coming to a Supreme Court near you. Stay tuned.

 

[dreese]

You read into it right that is how it works layoffs go by occ date not company date but you can go back to your other title group (you lose your other title time day for day)

 

[s80dude]

anyone who took a transfer to another position within the company knew that their occupational seniority would not go with them

 

[jimntx]

Can't. The email really contains too much stuff that would identify her. What I am seeing is that occupational seniority will change for those who have transfered from one group to another during their tenure. An employee may have 15 or 20 years with the company, but have transfered into a different work group as little as 2 or 3 years ago. That 2 or 3 year date becomes the Occupational Seniority date, which is used for bidding, and more importantly, layoffs. Someone who only has maybe 5 years with the company, but stayed in the same group, will have 5 years occupational senority, over the 15 or 20 year veteran who may only have 2 or 3 years in that group. The lower paid 5 year employee will outrank the 20 year higher paid employee when it comes to bidding, and will be further down the layoff list than the employee who may have 20 years with the company.

I have to assume you are talking about a non-represented employee. Otherwise, what would be the big deal. If someone is a gate agent for 25 years and then becomes a flight attendant. Someone who started at the company as a flight attendant 5 years ago would be senior to the company transfer. That's the way seniority works.

And, if they are a non-represented employee, well that's the way the world is. Most companies don't even recognize tenure for anything with non-union employees. That's how new employeess get brought into companies at higher salaries and titles than people who have been around for years.

Also, don't know for sure, but my guess is that Florida is like Texas and is an employment-at-will state (most Southern states are). What this means is that if you are not a union member, your continued employment at a company is at the company's discretion. They can fire you, pass you over for promotion, transfer you, demote you--whatever they want--as long as they do not violate a state or Federal labor or equal opportunity law.

And, just because "it has always been this way" (such as, allowing non-union gate agents/crew schedulers/reservationists to bid on schedules based on employment tenure), there is no court that will force the company to continue that practice if it chooses to change things. The courts are interested in what is legal, not what is fair.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

And the truth shall set you free . . . or get you laid off, whichever the case may be.

American's new plan of "one agent per gate" now comes to a head as the real reason behind the drastic changes in occupational senority comes to light. The plan, to put a one stop machine near every gate for "passenger convenience" is the biggest kick in the customer's ass I've seen yet. One agent per gate to do nothing but open and close doors, handle jet bridge duties and shove boarding passes into the cute little boxes. If the boarding pass doesn't work, the passenger/customer is rejected and directed to the one stop machine to figure it out. Passengers who want to change seats or make other inquiries that they would normally make with a gate agent will be met with a curt "go to the one stop machine and do it yourself" response. American does NOT care about customer service, their advertising and statements to the contrary are outright lies to the public consumers.

How long does American think THIS kind of crap will keep customers? I had a gut feeling that something was up regarding all the company desires to change occupational seniority, know I know why. It's all designed to dump higher paying long term company seniority employees, leaving the minimal seniority drones behind to handle the menial labor tasks. Less employees equals bigger bonuses and profit sharing for the executive level.

With pen in hand, I'll have the ears of both Jerry Arpey and Susan Oliver smoking by the end of the week. This is nothing more than an underhanded attack on employees and labor, the very people who built the airline, give my stock value, and that Arpey is now committed to destroying from the inside out, there is no longer any doubt in my mind.

 

[flydcoop]

Wing...

I assume you are talking about agent occupational seniority.

My understanding is that the Agent Advisory Board wanted this some time back.

I think it came about around the time that 11 years-MAX was instated. Many former agents had gone into Management and when that was announced, the downgrades started. Why put up with the BS when you could possibly make a bit more $$ with much less drAAma?

Also, with the way that Management layoffs are handled (purely subjective based on MIA's example...I can't believe how some of the most brilliant are on the street and some of the "skaters" still have jobs! It's DEFINITELY a booty-kissin' thang!), can you blame them for wanting to downgrade for some protection (FURLOUGH, not layoff, and by Seniority ONLY). No wonder the agents who stuck it out in the trenches wanted Occupational! Many on this BB have bemoaned the fact that unions allow the "creme de la crap" to remain onboard while the truly deserving are on the street. Having been in both a union and management (and non-union frontline), I can tell you it is the same in both worlds except unions have more clearly defined rules and I find it more fair.

The union groups have had occupational seniority all along. Most of the flight attendants who are former agents knew this when we crossed over. It has been very scary since none of us foresaw the possibility of furloughs. There are F/As furloughed with 12-15yrs of company seniority. All that company seniority counts for is Vacation and Sick accrual, not pay seniority.

If you wish, I'm very good friends with the agent union organizer in MIA. I can get some feedback and send you a PM.

As for the One-Stop and 1 agent per gate scenario (which MIA was the PIONEER of...LOL!), Horrible! I also find this same trend in every industry. Less nurses, less cashiers, longer lines. The frontline and customer suffers but it's all about profit and the bonuses isn't it? How many analysts are there at AA again? My dream is to be an efficiency expert/outside consultant on assignment at HDQ!

Coop

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

You read into it right that is how it works layoffs go by occ date not company date but you can go back to your other title group (you lose your other title time day for day)

If you have a Title Group to go back to of course.If your Title group was surrenedered to the company you are SOL and on the street.

 

[wrx]

The only airline I know that lets you take your seniority from one department to the next is Delta. If you have been an agent at DL for 15 years and decide to become a f/a and your classmates from training are getting furloughed, you get to stay. Why? Because you have 15 plus years with the company. Why can DL do this? Because every work group is non-union, except the pilots. So if you hate the fact you can't keep your seniority from department to department, then go to Delta.

I had people in my charm school class that were agents prior to becoming a f/a. They kept their company seniority for travel benefits and other stuff. But, they started at the bottom of the seniority list as a f/a.

 

[AAmech]

And the truth shall set you free . . . or get you laid off, whichever the case may be.

American's new plan of "one agent per gate" now comes to a head as the real reason behind the drastic changes in occupational senority comes to light. The plan, to put a one stop machine near every gate for "passenger convenience" is the biggest kick in the customer's ass I've seen yet. One agent per gate to do nothing but open and close doors, handle jet bridge duties and shove boarding passes into the cute little boxes. If the boarding pass doesn't work, the passenger/customer is rejected and directed to the one stop machine to figure it out. Passengers who want to change seats or make other inquiries that they would normally make with a gate agent will be met with a curt "go to the one stop machine and do it yourself" response. American does NOT care about customer service, their advertising and statements to the contrary are outright lies to the public consumers.

How long does American think THIS kind of crap will keep customers? I had a gut feeling that something was up regarding all the company desires to change occupational seniority, know I know why. It's all designed to dump higher paying long term company seniority employees, leaving the minimal seniority drones behind to handle the menial labor tasks. Less employees equals bigger bonuses and profit sharing for the executive level.

With pen in hand, I'll have the ears of both Jerry Arpey and Susan Oliver smoking by the end of the week. This is nothing more than an underhanded attack on employees and labor, the very people who built the airline, give my stock value, and that Arpey is now committed to destroying from the inside out, there is no longer any doubt in my mind.

Don't know if I agree with the "one agent per gate" staffing but surveys of passengers show that the machines are a hit! And the higher revenue passengers like them the most! Would you rather stand in a long line to talk to an agent or walk straight over to a machine and get your boarding pass yourself? The problem AA has is its behind the curve with machine installation. Airlines like CO are WAY ahead! I flew on DL a couple weeks ago and they were directing ALL their passengers at the Ticket Counter to try the machines FIRST! At the Ticket Counter! I couldn't belive it, but apparently they're good for customer Sat scores so we better get used to them.