OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

Unravelling the process of binding arbitration would be a much bigger part of a much bigger problem. I like my idea. USAPA needs to take itself out of the middle of the SLI process and restore the equal footing that each side had under ALPA Joint Negotiations. USAPA needs to acknowledge they were and are unwilling to represent the west (how many times has Hummel been to PHX to talk to the rank and file?). USAPA needs to acknowledge that it could possibly lead a fully integrated pilot group, but that it cannot impose it's will (even if it was "trying" to be fair) on the west during the integration. It needs to swallow the Nic and move on.

There is no other solution that preserves Binding Arbitration and moves the pilot group forward. The east cannot decide what is fair. That was established by an arbitrator. Accept it and move on, voluntarily or under court order.

Sorry, but I disagree.

USAPA is the only reps for the pilot group, legally.

 

[Move2CLT]

The courts have repeatedly been asked to declare the Nic to be it... and they have repeatedly refused to do so, and have even gone further to state emphatically and unambiguously, that it is not "it". Yet Marty still collects money from folks who drone on about "Nic is it" and at the same time claim to also be the sole spotters of morons.

The courts have not done so because its not their job. They've reiterated that over and over.

Nic is it, Marty is getting paid, you have no DOH, and you're on LOA93.

 

[luvn737s]

The courts have repeatedly been asked to declare the Nic to be it... and they have repeatedly refused to do so, and have even gone further to state emphatically and unambiguously, that it is not "it".

That is absolutely not true. The courts have said that USAPA is free to propose anything it wants, but that it has not been given approval to implement anything it wants. They can gamble on the ambiguous standard of resonableness, but they have not proven how they can refute the Addington jury and the non-bias of Nicolau and the neutrals.

Apparently, the clearer the issue becomes, the more worried USAPA becomes. They might actually have to act on something.

Actually earning their dues money?? Oh, the horrors!

 

[Move2CLT]

Sorry, uhaul,

but your mentality is the largest impediment to the whole pilot group......I know you can't help it, but we have to move on.
breeze

Dissing my mentality when you state LOA93 is just dandy.

Seems like the only impediment here is the idiocy from the likes of you. I know you can't help it because you guys have been #### yourselves for years, but you have to move and and accept the Nic.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sorry, but I disagree.

Hear that? That's the sound of no one giving a ####.

 

[Move2CLT]

Q. Please explain the way things work when the company furloughs pilots.

A. Furloughs will be administered on a date-of-hire basis.



LMAO!

Sure breeze, there are some west pilots that will sign off on this.

NOT!

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry, uhaul,

but your mentality is the largest impediment to the whole pilot group......I know you can't help it, but we have to move on.
breeze

Uhaul has been begging for relevance from the first post. Sorta like a two year old that has discovered the power of temper tantrums in the candy aisle of the supermarket.

 

[traderjake]

Uhaul has been begging for relevance from the first post. Sorta like a two year old that has discovered the power of temper tantrums in the candy aisle of the supermarket.

You're confusing Mov2CLT with USAPA.

 

[mrbreeze]

Q. Please explain the way things work when the company furloughs pilots.

A. Furloughs will be administered on a date-of-hire basis.



LMAO!

Sure breeze, there are some west pilots that will sign off on this.

NOT!

So, give them a chance to vote on it......that's the point. If you have input for whoever is trying to propose a new SLI, by all means, make your voice heard.....whether it be USAPA or AOL.

At this point in time, that would be better than anything the comapny, the hardliners on each side, or the courts have to say. Let's get the power back into the hands of the line pilots and let them vote on ANY internal proposal.

With the retirement's that are coming up I don't think furloughees have much to worry about, as far as pre merger goes. After an AA merger, things are iffy in all areas of the SLI.

I think we all need to try and get the courts, lawyers, and management out of our business and let's hammer out what we can, while we have that chance.


breeze

 

[cleardirect]

Then USAPA can sue the company for not bargaining with their union agent. After Silver gave the greenlight. There is more chance of getting a piece of the company by the East pilots than the West now. The Nicolau is not a requirement and if the company tries to do it, we go after them hard.

After all of these year of living with the RLA I would think you would understand more.

What did Seham tell you? That seniority is like a crew meal. You get what you negotiate. If the company does not give you $300 per hour can you sue the company for not bargaining? If the company stands on PBS and refuses to agree to line bidding can you sue the company?

I suggest that you go read the law suit that usapa lost in NY over status quo. It might enlighten you but I hold no hold. Usapa has been there lost that.

So before you go talking all tough about going after them hard understand what you are saying first.

 

[cleardirect]

Despite your penchant for ad hominem comments, your preference for equivocation, and your failure to come to grips with reality.. the only way forward is through a JCBA, negotiated between the company and USAPA, ratified by all pilots.

Marty would do well to write nicer love letters to his objects of affection if he ever intends to win some love.

You say it but you fail to understand it.

Read your own words again. A negotiation between the company and usapa. Not negotiations between east and west. Marty is not looking for any "love" Marty is warning usapa

Now tell usapa to get to the table and get a contract. You said you won. You said it was over. Time to perform. Trash talk all day long eventually you have to back it up.

 

[cleardirect]

SOme would say the East ALPA MEC thought Nicalau's call for input and help was disingenuous whitewash.

Regardless of your opinion of USAPA's motives or sincerity, they are the legal bargaining agent of all USAir pilots.

Yes we know. Usapa is the bargaining agent. No need to keep repeating it.

So shut up and go bargain.

 

[cleardirect]

Sorry, but I disagree.

USAPA is the only reps for the pilot group, legally.

Yes usapa. Not some randomly picked west pilot negotiating with usapa for seniority.

Go tell usapa to start bargaining with the company.

 

[cleardirect]

So, give them a chance to vote on it......that's the point. If you have input for whoever is trying to propose a new SLI, by all means, make your voice heard.....whether it be USAPA or AOL.

At this point in time, that would be better than anything the comapny, the hardliners on each side, or the courts have to say. Let's get the power back into the hands of the line pilots and let them vote on ANY internal proposal.

With the retirement's that are coming up I don't think furloughees have much to worry about, as far as pre merger goes. After an AA merger, things are iffy in all areas of the SLI.

I think we all need to try and get the courts, lawyers, and management out of our business and let's hammer out what we can, while we have that chance.


breeze

Why should the west waste our time giving input to usapa. The west has been trying to get usapa to listen and accept many other contract sections but the east refuses.

Has usapa accepted PBS yet? Nothing to do with seniority.

Has the east changed your mind on how to bid vacation?

Has usapa listened to the west and accepted our Short term disability insurance?

Usapa does not want input they want an excuse and a legal defense.

 

[cactusboy53]

With the latest legal episodes.....

IMHO, USAPA, at this point, needs to put out a list that is as fair as possible for the WHOLE pilot group ( which may take some time to put together) and let us vote on it, as the pilot group they represent.....not what each faction of Reps want.....

breeze

breeze;

USAPA is bound by the Constitution & By Laws and the UOM. It says that USAPA is "to maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof..". USAPA was voted in by the majority of pilots, thus erasing separate parties. There is one body, and USAPA must represent us all. Further, when USAPA was voted in as the new CBA, the inherited ALL contracts, letters of agreement, side letters, etc. (meaning that you simply can not pick and choose after the fact). USAPA is painted into a corner.

To that point, the company wants specific direction and/or protections from the courts against a most certain DFR. The Nicolau list sits on Doug's desk as the only legal & binding list. We each spent nearly one million $$$ each to come to that list. The company reimbursed us $600,000 for that list.

The Nicolau is the the middle ground, it is fair, it is decisively and logically well thought out. The body of the decision spells out exactly how he came to that position.

USAPA promised a new contract with a DOH list in 90 days. That was 1660 days ago. The company will not help you cheat the system, and you will languish on your LOA 93 until you realize that. Worse, LCC reaps the benefits of your poor choices AND will not hand you each over a check for the money that you have lost.

I recently looked at a piece of data regarding wages lost. It shows one of the representatives from an east base. In five years (he was a first officer), he has lost over $172,000.00 (not to mention contract improvements and time off). Imagine what the NB captains have lost. Imagine the HUGE loses of the WB captains.

There is one way out. You know it. USAPA knows it (but keeps pressing for compromise), we know it, and EVERYONE in the commercial aviation community knows it.

CM