OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

I'll file that one right along with "Judge Silver gave usapa a green light to negotiate".

You boys are on a roll today!!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

cactusboy

The only way to move beyond our present circumstance is to first recognize and acknowledge where we are. Progress will only be made if we move forward from where we are, not where we were several years ago.

Both sides need to relinquish their idealogical positions and begin to think in practical terms how to solve this stalemate. And by the way, all who retire, whether east or west, while this legal dispute continues unresolved - for them it is definitely stalemate.

Instead of listening to the hardliners on either side with the loudest voices, USAPA's leadership and BPR need to grow some and listen to the largest number of voices instead.

It's known as 'realpolitik' and we need a strong dose of it here.

It's still a reframed argument you are talking about here. It's only a stalemate because usapa ran into problems. The hardliners you speak of who matter most are on the east. They will never relinquish their upper hand, which I refer to as their very own 2% wrecking ball. They won't listen to you. They sure as hell won't listen to me. Usapa has always been, and always will be, a racket for the ethically challenged operating under the cloak of legitimacy. There are fine people from both coasts, usapa supporters and non supporters alike. That however is not enough to alter the reality I'm afraid.

 

[Move2CLT]

Until the company is ready to rock then the pilots will be relegated to wearing yellow raincoats and making whinny speeches at crew news.

How about those pathetic attempts at a slow down?

 

[EastUS1]

So the first West poster starts out with the "liar" accusation and ends with the demand that the "liar" must go tell his union leaders to use the "nic and nothing else". I'm sure that attitude will work wonders. Suit yourself. 🙂

Indeed. One simply couldn't make that type of "thinking" up and expect to be taken seriously anywhere.

 

[EastUS1]

Phoenix, on 01 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said: Until the company is ready to rock then the pilots will be relegated to wearing yellow raincoats and making whinny speeches at crew news.

How about those pathetic attempts at a slow down?

What "slow down"? but anyway: Good point Move. For any truly effective action to be taken: You guys better stick with the raincoats and Waaahs!...and don't forget the swoosh-emblazoned kneepads of course. 😉

Hmmm...better yet: Have your slimy, fat-boy-JM offer up another gray hair joke to his "friend" Doug, That kind of thing is always devastatingly effective in getting the west's way! 🙂

 

[Phoenix]

So if the pilots are unwilling to comply with law voluntarily, the courts will intervene, irrespective of the number of emoticons you use.

Yeah, the courts are flying in on black helicopters and are ready to parachute in. And just in case you don't yet understand, the emoticons are not for the courts benefit. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

And the timing is simply amazing, we learn about the company's latest filing yesterday asking for a little vacating of Silver's ruling- just in time for the NMB meeting next week. This development would almost be unbelievable but the fact it is Parker it actually is believable.

Parker is the reason we don't have a contract, as pretty much all of us know the seniority fight would work itself out one way or another if there was a decent enough carrot dangled in front of us. But Parker has no interest in playing ball, he thinks we will continue to work like galley slaves for another decade. I feel something has to give soon and am actually quite pleased with Silver's ruling. It really is the best thing for both east and west going forward because it seems to me Silver understands where the real problem is and recognizes the solution to seniority cannot be had until there is a contract. If you don't negotiate a contract, how can you have a solution (or progress toward) settlement of seniority? The 9th totally put the screws to Parker and his boys which, upon reflection, is why I think they filed the DJ a month after the 9th ruled. Hopefully, the NMB will take a cue from Silver and make the company negotiate in "good faith" on every section outside of seniority to get this over with.

Agreed, save for your thoughts on the 9th/DJ/etc. I believe Parker et al just opted to delay things to the max extent possible with their courtroom antics...a trend that's continuing today.

As for the NMB?...I wish I could fully share even the optimistic hope that they'll serve labor's purpose in any way. I do hope I'm wrong there.

 

[EastUS1]

Usapa has always been, and always will be, a racket for the ethically challenged operating under the cloak of legitimacy.

There are fine people from both coasts, usapa supporters and non supporters alike. That however is not enough to alter the reality I'm afraid.

1) "....a racket for the ethically challenged operating under the cloak of legitimacy." I feel much the same regarding arbitration. What real excuses do any supposedly intelligent "adults" EVER have for being entirely unable to reasonably resolve their differences, within even their own ranks?

2) "There are fine people from both coasts..." Agreed.

 

[Metroyet]

Sorry, uhaul,

but your mentality is the largest impediment to the whole pilot group......I know you can't help it, but we have to move on.
breeze

The largest impediment to the whole pilot group is this insane notion that USAPA can simply ignore the arbitration and advance every single East pilot at the sole expense of every single West pilot...and do so with impunity. The hysterical part is the fact that so many Easties actually believe this BS. You only want to "negotiate" now because you are seeing how tight a corner you painted yourself into and you need help to save face and not look like the complete fools you are. I wouldn't count on much help out West.

Until USAPA is dead and buried, you won't get a contract. Ever. Enjoy the corner.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

1) "....a racket for the ethically challenged operating under the cloak of legitimacy." I feel much the same regarding arbitration. What real excuses do any supposedly intelligent "adults" EVER have for being entirely unable to reasonably resolve their differences, within even their own ranks?

2) "There are fine people from both coasts..." Agreed.

At least Nicloau never filed a RICO suit against you.

 

[EastUS1]

At least Nicloau never filed a RICO suit against you.

No argument there LS, and as I've previously noted; yourself and some others were dealt with not only unfairly, but to a level that seemed insane to me. Quite frankly LS....It's a tribute to your character that you have any civilty to offer "the east" at all, in the aftermath of what you were put through.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

No argument there LS, and as I've previously noted; yourself and some others were dealt with not only unfairly, but to a level that seemed insane to me.

I appreciate that, I really do. It's just that on an institutional level, I have a hard time seeing how any differences can just be easily resolved when the most base of actions cannot be even acknowledged, much less ammends ever having been made. Any true progress needs a firm foundation.

 

[luvn737s]

No argument there LS, and as I've previously noted; yourself and some others were dealt with not only unfairly, but to a level that seemed insane to me.

Yet no recalls, no picketing, no demands for justice for the west. Poor EastUS, suffered in silence.

 

[EastUS1]

Yet no recalls, no picketing, no demands for justice for the west. Poor EastUS, suffered in silence.

Those like LS that did nothing more than chat online about the west-east mess shouldn't have been improperly abused. Raising the whole thing to an attempted RICO action was insane, imo....period.

Now then: How much "justice" was given to those fine westies that did the phone jamming and mailing "antics"? How many ever even admitted doing such figurative and literal "crap"? With all that; you now feel I should have instantly gone on the warpath for "justice" for the poor "honest" and "decent" perpetrators of such rancid BS?!!? Spare me your entirely infantile, misplaced and utterly absurd self-righteousness, which serves only to disgust.

GROW UP!!!

 

[luvn737s]

your entirely infantile, misplaced and utterly absurd self-righteousness, which serves only to disgust.

You're soaking in it!

Hey, maybe I was wrong. You seem unable to do anything in silence, why should suffering be the exception.

Now hustle on down to USAPA HQ for movie night. They're watching Schindler's List on the DIY Network.