OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

You sir, are the quintessential example of the only pilots that Franke Air could recruit, but now claim superiority to others.

" Thank you for a memorable afternoon, usually one must go to a bowling alley to meet a woman of your stature"

Actor Hobson, Arthur Movie

"And you sir are, without a doubt, a complete idiot."

Move2CLT, airlineforums.com

 

[Move2CLT]

Pay rate differences east and west:
320 F/o
8 year $6 an hour
10 year $6 an hour
14 year $8 an hour
Top of scale $9 an hour

320 Capt.

8 yr $13 an hour
10 yr $13 an hour
14 yr $15 an hour
Top of scale $17 an hour

Not like either side is really cleaning house in the pay department. However the east does have access to widebodies that provides better pay than the west, also the east has higher pay on the 757's. west 757's are same rate as the 320's. The east emb 190's however......well the fact that the last captain bid on the 190 went to a march 2004 hire date and the Junior Capt on the 320 is 89 hire date says it all.

Cancellation pay? Rigs? Etc, etc.

Always a kick to see you easties defending LOA93.

 

[luvn737s]

It's designed to say a whole lot of nothing and everything in order to be a self perpetuating enterprise.

No, that's EastUS

 

[luvn737s]

NONE of this should have gone to arbitration in the first place!...Much less the glorious legal system!

You're getting warmer. What you must really mean is that USAPA should have been hatched about 18 months before it was. Then you could have had everything with no one to stop you. Well, except you would have botched the whole bankrutcy thing by pulling some wild hair job action and shut the place down accidently.

But you may have made a few bucks selling hot dogs and trinkets at the equipment auction. Maybe.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Cancellation pay? Rigs? Etc, etc.

Always a kick to see you easties defending LOA93.

Won't find me defending LOA 93...the part I find funny is how you love to toss LOA 93 out there like it is so far below what the west makes.

Bottom line is LOA 93 is the worst contract the east has had since 1972. But the current one the west is on is the best contract they have ever had. You have to go back to 1986 or so to find an east contract that is the same as this one dollar for dollar, of course in 1986 that dollar bought more.

So no I am not defending LOA 93. But this is the worst anybody currently on the east has ever seen, while at the same time is within a few bucks of the best the west has ever seen. Even if Doug brought the east up to west pay plus 10% it would still suck balls compared to everything else the east has ever had prior to LOA 93...but you would be farting rainbows at all that cash! Thats the funny part.

 

[Move2CLT]

Won't find me defending LOA 93...the part I find funny is how you love to toss LOA 93 out there like it is so far below what the west makes.

Bottom line is LOA 93 is the worst contract the east has had since 1972. But the current one the west is on is the best contract they have ever had. You have to go back to 1986 or so to find an east contract that is the same as this one dollar for dollar, of course in 1986 that dollar bought more.

So no I am not defending LOA 93. But this is the worst anybody currently on the east has ever seen, while at the same time is within a few bucks of the best the west has ever seen. Even if Doug brought the east up to west pay plus 10% it would still suck balls compared to everything else the east has ever had prior to LOA 93...but you would be farting rainbows at all that cash! Thats the funny part.

Nope, sounds like your rationalizing LOA93.

Bottom line is your best years have been offset by almost a decade of LOA93. We may not have had the highest pay, but we weren't the lowest either. And we've got some industry leading language in our contract which, not surprisingly, you gomers are willing to give away.

What truly is the funny part is that you guys are OK with all this.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Nope, sounds like your rationalizing LOA93.

Bottom line is your best years have been offset by almost a decade of LOA93. We may not have had the highest pay, but we weren't the lowest either. And we've got some industry leading language in our contract which, not surprisingly, you gomers are willing to give away.

What truly is the funny part is that you guys are OK with all this.

Industry leading? You are kidding right?

Your current contract and work rules are a good bit lower than what the east was running in 1998. In 98 a f-100 driver made more than your top of scale 757 guy does now. Just like the east's the west contract is a joke. Only problem is thats the best you have ever seen and you think it is something special. Nobody is making what they made back then, Delta, united etc...nobody. Except the west. So that is why I find it funny how you love to toss out things like industry leading. The rest of the industry is trying to claw its way back up from the post 9/11 mess. And you think what you have is industry leading. Thats a good one! 🙂

I am guessing you are one of the Junior guys hired after 9/11. nobody in the industry prior to 9/11 would call anything that anybody has industry leading anymore. Industry recovering maybe, but not leading.

 

[Move2CLT]

No, that's EastUS

Nice.

 

[Move2CLT]

Industry leading? You are kidding right?

Your current contract and work rules are a good bit lower than what the east was running in 1998. In 98 a f-100 driver made more than your top of scale 757 guy does now. Just like the east's the west contract is a joke. Only problem is thats the best you have ever seen and you think it is something special. Nobody is making what they made back then, Delta, united etc...nobody. Except the west. So that is why I find it funny how you love to toss out things like industry leading. The rest of the industry is trying to claw its way back up from the post 9/11 mess. And you think what you have is industry leading. Thats a good one! 🙂

I am guessing you are one of the Junior guys hired after 9/11. nobody in the industry prior to 9/11 would call anything that anybody has industry leading anymore. Industry recovering maybe, but not leading.

I'm guessing your wrong.

Pull up,our contract and read it.

Oh, and quit living in the past you idiot. Maybe you'd be off LOA93 if you'd look around at your PRESENT shitty situation.

And I said "language", not "contract" you yutz. Man I swear you easties get dumber by the day.

 

[cleardirect]

Won't find me defending LOA 93...the part I find funny is how you love to toss LOA 93 out there like it is so far below what the west makes.

Bottom line is LOA 93 is the worst contract the east has had since 1972. But the current one the west is on is the best contract they have ever had. You have to go back to 1986 or so to find an east contract that is the same as this one dollar for dollar, of course in 1986 that dollar bought more.

So no I am not defending LOA 93. But this is the worst anybody currently on the east has ever seen, while at the same time is within a few bucks of the best the west has ever seen. Even if Doug brought the east up to west pay plus 10% it would still suck balls compared to everything else the east has ever had prior to LOA 93...but you would be farting rainbows at all that cash! Thats the funny part.

I know your east guys talk about what great contracts you HAD. But you also talk about what crappy careers you have had for the last 20 years. How many time you have been furloughed or downgraded.

Tell me.

If you have a great contract but are furloughed how great is the contract?

If the airline has a great contract but you get downgraded how great is that contract?

 

[nevergiveup]

I'm guessing your wrong.

Pull up,our contract and read it.

Oh, and quit living in the past you idiot. Maybe you'd be off LOA93 if you'd look around at your PRESENT shitty situation.

And I said "language", not "contract" you yutz. Man I swear you easties get dumber by the day.

Keep Move in your prayers.....every day.

 

[luvn737s]

Won't find me defending LOA 93...

You are not only defending it, you've built a 3500 member shrine to it in the form of USAPA. If you disliked LOA93 you would take steps necessary to eliminate it - you would carry out the agreed-to arbitration instead of tossing an endless number of Hail Mary's in the court hoping to get someone to agree that Binding Arbitration doesn't mean #### and that Majority gets what it wants when it wants it.

Delays (which is the only product of USAPA) have fed LOA93 to the point that you would really rather forego the improved workrules and pay than admit USAPA is a mistake and pull the plug on your civil war.

 

[nevergiveup]

You are not only defending it, you've built a 3500 member shrine to it in the form of USAPA. If you disliked LOA93 you would take steps necessary to eliminate it - you would carry out the agreed-to arbitration instead of tossing an endless number of Hail Mary's in the court hoping to get someone to agree that Binding Arbitration doesn't mean #### and that Majority gets what it wants when it wants it.

Delays (which is the only product of USAPA) have fed LOA93 to the point that you would really rather forego the improved workrules and pay than admit USAPA is a mistake and pull the plug on your civil war.

3500 and growing while furloughed west pilots risk losing perhaps up to 1000 numbers by the time it is all said and done. West stagnation, no growth, all because the west is not willing to budge as well. It's a 2 sided issue! Funny how the west seems to dislike LOA 93 more than the east!

 

[cleardirect]

3500 and growing while furloughed west pilots risk losing perhaps up to 1000 numbers by the time it is all said and done. West stagnation, no growth, all because the west is not willing to budge as well. It's a 2 sided issue! Funny how the west seems to dislike LOA 93 more than the east!

So just exactly HOW are west furloughed pilots going to lose 1000 numbers?

Do you still believe that you are going to get DOH?

Do you think that a merger with american will be DOH?

Thank you for making the point how unfair and how using DOH there is NO LUP for usapa. Because by pure math if a west furlough losses 1000 numbers those pilots also go above 1000 west pilots. Using DOH every east pilots gains seniority while every west pilot losses seniority. How does that benefit the bargaining agent as a whole? How is advancing east pilots over west pilots representing west pilots fairly?

 

[nevergiveup]

So just exactly HOW are west furloughed pilots going to lose 1000 numbers?

Do you still believe that you are going to get DOH?

Do you think that a merger with american will be DOH?

Thank you for making the point how unfair and how using DOH there is NO LUP for usapa. Because by pure math if a west furlough losses 1000 numbers those pilots also go above 1000 west pilots. Using DOH every east pilots gains seniority while every west pilot losses seniority. How does that benefit the bargaining agent as a whole? How is advancing east pilots over west pilots representing west pilots fairly?

The same way the east furloughed pilots lost in the NIC by not being on the property. What goes around, comes around. It's the west way of doing things. If you have kept up with my posts, you would know that I do not believe an American merger would go DOH. An arbitrator will decide what to do with the pilots that elected furlough over coming back to work, not me.