OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Got them both off this year.....too early to tell for next year yet. But chances are pretty good unless I bid a widebody.

Just curious though, Is that supposed to be your selling point to get me to vote for a NIC? If so it needs some work.

No boo, I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I just enjoy pointing out your stupidity.

Any idiot willing to stay on LOA93 and then rationalize that decision is a lost cause.

 

[nevergiveup]

No boo, I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I just enjoy pointing out your stupidity.

Any idiot willing to stay on LOA93 and then rationalize that decision is a lost cause.

I've never seen anyone cry so much about someone else's pay. Here's a tissue!

 

[Keroseneuser]

No boo, I'm not trying to sell you on anything. I just enjoy pointing out your stupidity.

Any idiot willing to stay on LOA93 and then rationalize that decision is a lost cause.

It really is simple move, there is no upside for the east that includes NIC. It just is not there. Stuck on LOA 93 and have movement, or take a NIC and make less than you would under LOA 93 when you lose access to widebodies and retirement seats. Doug will never pay enough to make up the NIC difference.

The only upside the west has in a NIC situation is the small chance that some years down the road a court may force a NIC, other than that you are stuck where you are with no movement and no pay raise.

Current stance from the company guarantees another 2 years status quo at least. I would not want to be on the west in this situation. No matter what happens they are hosed. No movement, and no chance at higher pay. According to Doug the only thing keeping you flying as it stands right now is the east routes you operate and the T/A fleet mins. But you are correct, the west may yet prevail at getting a NIc somewhere down the road. By the time that happens though I don't think there will be anybody left on the east that cares, too many retirements coming up combined with new rest requirements will make it a side note to history.

When the guys that were furloughed in 2005 start to upgrade to the bus in early 2013 that will be the final nail in the NIC coffin. That will probably happen somewhere around April or may. The only chance of a Transition agreement NIC vote to accept a contract possibly has to be passed is before that happens, and since Doug filed it will be 6 or so months at the earliest after that it will even be in the next round of court follies.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Fun fact numbers to chew on:

Right now there are 516 east F/O's that could hold Capt. on a Bus but are not bidding it. Some probably due to commutes, some due to not wanting to sit reserve, some don't want to give up the international flying, some just don't want to be captain, and probably a few that are too close to retirement to bother.

Currently there are 35 190 Captains that can hold a bus as well. Some of those probably due to 2 year seat locks, others the commute or reserve considerations.

If that trend continues I would expect the capt seats to get pretty far into the folks that were furloughed when NIC did his list by the end of 2013.

That is why nobody on the east is frothing at the mouth for a NIC. The list is just too far gone from anything resembling 2005 to matter. Except to the west.

 

[Move2CLT]

I've never seen anyone cry so much about someone else's pay. Here's a tissue!

Those tears are from me laughing so hard.

Thanks.

 

[nevergiveup]

Those tears are from me laughing so hard.

Thanks.

Hang in there, kid. Let it out. Crying is okay. Here's another tissue!

 

[Metroyet]

The list is just too far gone from anything resembling 2005 to matter. Except to the west.

The West, The company, the APA,THE LAW.... You should know by now that basing reality upon whether or not East pilots are willing to play by the rules or not is a pretty asinine metric.

 

[Claxon]

Fun fact numbers to chew on:

Right now there are 516 east F/O's that could hold Capt. on a Bus but are not bidding it. Some probably due to commutes, some due to not wanting to sit reserve, some don't want to give up the international flying, some just don't want to be captain, and probably a few that are too close to retirement to bother.

Currently there are 35 190 Captains that can hold a bus as well. Some of those probably due to 2 year seat locks, others the commute or reserve considerations.

If that trend continues I would expect the capt seats to get pretty far into the folks that were furloughed when NIC did his list by the end of 2013.

That is why nobody on the east is frothing at the mouth for a NIC. The list is just too far gone from anything resembling 2005 to matter. Except to the west.

Exactly. This entire issue has moved on so far past the Nicolau, it is a non issue. You now have a furloughed pilot from the western division David O Dell with better career prospects than the entire western pilot group. He will be an eastern captain within 5 years, while the rest of the jihadists of Leonidas will still be paying off their installments to Martyr Harper.All for a lost cause.
They have years of working holidays ahead of them, and no movement.

 

[Claxon]

Courts care. You'll care as well.

Be patient.

They have cared for the eastern div. very well, the 9th, Silver. Yours? Wake? he was spanked like a spoiled child.

 

[Claxon]

Yes, do whatever it takes to come back to the lowest paying, most dysfunctional pilot group so you can be stapled to the bottom simply because a majority of refugees decided that's the way it would be . The job they were furloughed from (a decent airline with plenty of upside potential and a pilot group that was making meaningful improvements contract-over-contract) doesn't exist anymore. It's been replaced with a mutinous crew vying for the position of commander of the rotting hulk run aground.

To quote cltrat, "Thanks East".

A decent airline? Are you kidding? Of course you are an America West pilot. Year over year the lowest compensated pilot group in the industry. A dirtball outfit. You honestly have no perspective. That is why the REAL USAirways pilots want nothing to do with your group.

 

[Claxon]

It's all matter of public record. You see, sane people don't readily invite massive lawsuits they know they will lose. The East doesn't care because they are generally not sane. The company, with its fiduciary responsibilities doesn't have the luxury of insanity...as you so abundantly enjoy. I understand this is a highly complex concept. Please do your best to keep up.

Well the west pilots just filed two new court documents. Sane people do not continue to keep filing documents that always end up with the same results. Perfect timing for Marty and Andy for the meet and grief with the west pilots. They love riding the company coattails.

Oh the glory days of the now dismissed addington trial is all they can talk about. Keep writing those checks.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/index.php?view=article&id=226:leonidas-update-november-01-2012&format=pdf

 

[Ames]

What slow down?



This is public internet chat Ames. Move wouldn't match "wits" well against so much as a sea sponge, but you dissappoint me here.

Now that makes sense!?!?

 

[Ames]

1) Best guess here = I don't honestly see how they can come off DOH, at least not without a substantial change in the C&By Laws beforehand...which seems very unlikely to happen imo. I've been wrong many times before in life though. 😉

I agree. Yet your side repeatedly asks the west to compromise. Why do they do that?

 

[Ames]

What a pathetic moron.

I guess your next question is "what injunction"?

And speaking of sea sponges, even they'd commit suicide listening to the perpetual hot air coming out of you.

Yeah, move, I'm still trying to wrap my head around that response of his. He gets stranger and stranger as time goes on.

 

[Beancounter]

Exactly. This entire issue has moved on so far past the Nicolau, it is a non issue. You now have a furloughed pilot from the western division David O Dell with better career prospects than the entire western pilot group. He will be an eastern captain within 5 years, while the rest of the jihadists of Leonidas will still be paying off their installments to Martyr Harper.All for a lost cause.
They have years of working holidays ahead of them, and no movement.

So, we should just accept DOH to get a new contract and be bumped back east to sit under someone that was furloughed at the time of the merger? No thanks. Unfortunately you are right, we will sit here and stagnate, while you will be under LOA93 for a looooong time to come (baring a merger). I understand you getting anxious about us accepting DOH if a merger occurs. Merger = hello money and hello NIC. O'dell probably made a good choice, because merger or no merger he wouldn't be back in PHX.

Bean