OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

If the recall goes forward, what is the exact timeline? Who will replace them? What experience will the new reps bring to the position? How long before CLT has a fully functioning BPR which is up to speed on all the issues and fully adept at dealing with the CP on one hand and union politics on the other?

The current reps have postured in the past, but they also respond to pressure from membership. The MOU is a good example. In the beginning they made vague threats about being a 'firewall' and not allowing the document to be voted on by the pilots. But after strong feedback they changed their position. I wanted to vote on the MOU and told them so - but whether I voted yes or no would have been my decision.

Events are happening fast. The original MOU and APA Term sheet are rapidly becomming irrelevant.

Not sure this is the right time to change horses.

Your recollection of how the CLT reps treated the MOU is at best incomplete. If you have been anywhere near the airport or on this forum you would have seen/given the link to their website (the recall guys) At this point, as in the dark you seem to be, might as well wait for the campaign. Greeter

 

[Piedmont1984]

Your recollection of how the CLT reps treated the MOU is at best incomplete. If you have been anywhere near the airport or on this forum you would have seen/given the link to their website (the recall guys) At this point, as in the dark you seem to be, might as well wait for the campaign. Greeter

I asked several questions in my post. Your ad hominem response only vaguely addresses one and smacks of the same hyperbole you accuse the CLT reps of engaging in.

BTW - I work at the airport and read this forum almost every day.

 

[cleardirect]

If the recall goes forward, what is the exact timeline? Who will replace them? What experience will the new reps bring to the position? How long before CLT has a fully functioning BPR which is up to speed on all the issues and fully adept at dealing with the CP on one hand and union politics on the other?

The current reps have postured in the past, but they also respond to pressure from membership. The MOU is a good example. In the beginning they made vague threats about being a 'firewall' and not allowing the document to be voted on by the pilots. But after strong feedback they changed their position. I wanted to vote on the MOU and told them so - but whether I voted yes or no would have been my decision.

Events are happening fast. The original MOU and APA Term sheet are rapidly becomming irrelevant.

Not sure this is the right time to change horses.

That is the same argument the guy in office always makes. That no one has the experience to do this job. Everyone has to start new sometime

That is the same argument that ALPA made a new union and leadership does not have the experience. Well that turned out to be true.

The nominations are opening for the PHL reps. Should those same guys just be reelected because they have the experience of one term? There is always some event or situation that you can make the case the guy with experience should stay. Would you care to extend the retirement age to 80 because the experienced guys need to stay?

Old reps bring old ideas and attitudes. Those old ideas are not working.

 

[Piedmont1984]

That is the same argument the guy in office always makes. That no one has the experience to do this job. Everyone has to start new sometime

That is the same argument that ALPA made a new union and leadership does not have the experience. Well that turned out to be true.

The nominations are opening for the PHL reps. Should those same guys just be reelected because they have the experience of one term? There is always some event or situation that you can make the case the guy with experience should stay. Would you care to extend the retirement age to 80 because the experienced guys need to stay?

Old reps bring old ideas and attitudes. Those old ideas are not working.

True enough, but this happens to be a particularly unique time, with events unfolding fast. Most of the critical events associated with a company/union merger may well be behind us by the time a new CLT regime takes over. Better perhaps to keep pressure on your elected reps to be responsive to what the membership wants done.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

That is the same argument the guy in office always makes. That no one has the experience to do this job. Everyone has to start new sometime

That is the same argument that ALPA made a new union and leadership does not have the experience. Well that turned out to be true.

The nominations are opening for the PHL reps. Should those same guys just be reelected because they have the experience of one term? There is always some event or situation that you can make the case the guy with experience should stay. Would you care to extend the retirement age to 80 because the experienced guys need to stay?

Old reps bring old ideas and attitudes. Those old ideas are not working.

Maybe not for you!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

True enough, but this happens to be a particularly unique time, with events unfolding fast. Most of the critical events associated with a company/union merger may well be behind us by the time a new CLT regime takes over. Better perhaps to keep pressure on your elected reps to be responsive to what the membership wants done.

The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see. , agree!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

True enough, but this happens to be a particularly unique time, with events unfolding fast. Most of the critical events associated with a company/union merger may well be behind us by the time a new CLT regime takes over. Better perhaps to keep pressure on your elected reps to be responsive to what the membership wants done.

Sorry I was rude to you earlier. If your reps are not paying attention, and are not listening to their member pilots..then a recall is the only "pressure" left. It's not my recall, so I cannot speak for them, but my opinion is if the behavior changes then the recall has done its job. McKee's "performances" in the last two day meeting were embarrassing. I don't want him making any more decisions for me going forward. Keeping him there only guarantees a continuity of failure.Greeter

 

[fifidriver]

Sorry I was rude to you earlier. If your reps are not paying attention, and are not listening to their member pilots..then a recall is the only "pressure" left. It's not my recall, so I cannot speak for them, but my opinion is if the behavior changes then the recall has done its job. McKee's "performances" in the last two day meeting were embarrassing. I don't want him making any more decisions for me going forward. Keeping him there only guarantees a continuity of failure.Greeter

Add that level of performance to communication that could at best be described as "incomplete", and here we are.
Maybe a "middle ground" solution would be to only recall one or two reps. Alternately, possibly recall one rep at a time, that way you retain some continuity while installing someone slightly less "embarrassing" or incompetent.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Sorry I was rude to you earlier. If your reps are not paying attention, and are not listening to their member pilots..then a recall is the only "pressure" left. It's not my recall, so I cannot speak for them, but my opinion is if the behavior changes then the recall has done its job. McKee's "performances" in the last two day meeting were embarrassing. I don't want him making any more decisions for me going forward. Keeping him there only guarantees a continuity of failure.Greeter

Let me just add that when I asked the recall organizers to tell me who would replace the current BPR, they answered that if no one stepped forward (meaning they don't know), they would jump in and do the best they could. Nothing wrong with that sentiment, but the day after the recall, either the current BPR will return to work representing their pilots or a brand new group will embark upon a substantial learning curve at a critical time.

Sounds like the recall is going to happen anyway. So time and effort will soon be spent campaigning rather than devoting 100% attention and effort to bigger issues. If the recall is carried, my guess is that it will be well into the spring before a new BPR is fully functional and effective. By then, most of the really important issues confronting us will very likely be history.

 

[Phoenix]

If the recall goes forward, what is the exact timeline? Who will replace them? What experience will the new reps bring to the position? How long before CLT has a fully functioning BPR which is up to speed on all the issues and fully adept at dealing with the CP on one hand and union politics on the other?

The current reps have postured in the past, but they also respond to pressure from membership. The MOU is a good example. In the beginning they made vague threats about being a 'firewall' and not allowing the document to be voted on by the pilots. But after strong feedback they changed their position. I wanted to vote on the MOU and told them so - but whether I voted yes or no would have been my decision.

Events are happening fast. The original MOU and APA Term sheet are rapidly becomming irrelevant.

Not sure this is the right time to change horses.

I am bored of pilots trying to stir up our emotions and direct our dicontent into blaming our reps.

At this point, after all the representative elections, anyone who is still engaged in fragging and friendly fire is just way of base, imho.

DUI has been basking in the glow of the employee union's self-immolation for far too long. The pilot group has folks that seem particularly addicted to incite self-immolation. Enough already about the sky falling.

At this point I think anyone with an agenda to "lead" pilots to hate other pilots is a "leader" that is off target... Waaayyy off target... 180 degrees off target.

 

[traderjake]

The current reps have postured in the past, but they also respond to pressure from membership. The MOU is a good example. In the beginning they made vague threats about being a 'firewall' and not allowing the document to be voted on by the pilots. But after strong feedback they changed their position. I wanted to vote on the MOU and told them so - but whether I voted yes or no would have been my decision.

Did you get to vote on the MOU?

 

[Piedmont1984]

I am bored of pilots trying to stir up our emotions and direct our dicontent into blaming our reps.

At this point, after all the representative elections, anyone who is still engaged in fragging and friendly fire is just way of base, imho.

DUI has been basking in the glow of the employee union's self-immolation for far too long. The pilot group has folks that seem particularly addicted to incite self-immolation. Enough already about the sky falling.

At this point I think anyone with an agenda to "lead" pilots to hate other pilots is a "leader" that is off target... Waaayyy off target... 180 degrees off target.

I agree - and that goes for some of our BPR reps who have engaged in self immolation as well this past year.

 

[Phoenix]

The company pulled the MOU in a manner designed to divide the membership from the BPR. The company suggested that the membership should lift a mug of cheer with DUI at the bar and sing a tune of blame. Drink up. Cheers!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Did you get to vote on the MOU?

Given the TA between APA and AA, and the fact that the Term Sheet is thus largely inadequate, rendering the MOU largely irrelevant, I'm quite comfortable that Parker yanked the flawed document off the table, thereby preventing certain misguided individuals from mistakenly rushing to accept an inferior and self damaging agreement.

 

[cactusboy53]

The company pulled the MOU in a manner designed to divide the membership from the BPR. The company suggested that the membership should lift a mug of cheer with DUI at the bar and sing a tune of blame. Drink up. Cheers!

How many times must you be educated? We were told that the MOU (based on the vote of the BPR to not recommend) would simply NOT be presented to LCC BOD (one of many parties to the agreement). The BPR still recommended that it went out for a vote. The majority of the BPR thus PULLED the MOU, not Mr. Parker.

With the changes going on, not necessarily a bad thing. The JCBA fabric is changing everyday.

Scott, it's a pretty time in PHX. You should take time to relax since you are out of the game. Take the little woman shopping or see a movie.

CB