Edward
Veteran
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New topic. ALL US Fleet Service issues here. Do NOT make it personal as your post will be deleted(not edited) & member making offending post subject to suspension.
O-man,
As 1 of the 3 GC members, we are fighting the good fight. CL and JK complete the GC. We follow the contract as written. What more can I say, we are very experienced at grievance procedures and contract language interpretation.
P. Rez
O-man,
As 1 of the 3 GC members, we are fighting the good fight. CL and JK complete the GC. We follow the contract as written. What more can I say, we are very experienced at grievance procedures and contract language interpretation.
P. Rez
Jester, I believe all union members demand trained and educated people in the positions of leadership. The IAM has put forth more $ into training and education than any other union and has its own distinct training center.QUOTE (Jester @ Mar 18 2009, 03:05 PM)
How about addressing the issue? Would you want a dentist little formal education in dentistry? Okay, bad example in your case... but would you want a surgeon who experience with a knife was as a butcher in a meat market? Call me "crazy" but I demand trained and educated people to managed professional positions, and that includes the union "leadership".
So Inquires Jester.
True. I think battle scars crafted on the body as opposed to names on a piece of paper is what I'd perfer also.Tim,
I do believe Buffy and numerous other IAM reps have done the National Labor College and obtained degrees.
I on the other hand would rather have someone in a leadership role that rose from the battles and trenches than to come straight from college.
roabilly said,
I’m ain’t sure exactly what yer referring to... but... If there are any “weak links†in the current assembly of committeemen and officers, I’m certain that this can be rectified!
The same Network of Solidarity that made the last democratic overhaul possible... is still fully capable of exercising the collective will of the Membership. All we need are particulars... send me a private message with your concerns... or better yet...send them to Nelson.
The next round of elections can’t be too far away... and we will need feedback from all stations system wide. The New Direction is still a work in progress... with perhaps a few additional changes, we can achieve the true voice of the Membership.
Jester, I believe all union members demand trained and educated people in the positions of leadership. The IAM has put forth more $ into training and education than any other union and has its own distinct training center.
I presume your reference within the context of the "IAM Journal" was directed towards the INTL Prez and VPs of the IAM. Within that context, I find no evidence that your hypothesis that these guys are intellectually 'less savvy' than corporate management is true unless you limit your recognition of intelligence to the measuring of classroom 'book smart' degrees. Speaking as someone with a Master's education, I have found no evidence that I have any greater 'intelligence' after university degrees than before. That would be cool if it were true but unfortunately for me and others, who have been fortunate enough to obtain a fair level of education, it simply isn't the case.
However, there is a great pile of evidence against your hypothesis. The INTL IAM Prez is a very bright, well spoken gent who is often asked to testify on Capital hill as an expert in US trade policy, representational issues, and other Capital Hill matters. I presume he even sits on National Committees. I don't have any knowledge on how he obtained his vast education but it's readily apparent he has tons of it and it isn't restrictive to university classroom 'book' smarts.
regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
JesterTim,
Sorry, "soft" degrees don't impress me, especially from de facto diploma mills which hold organization seminars with fancy titles over the weekends at which everyone passes from its own training centers no less either. The only seminars I can respect are from those in which the participants have already earned REAL degrees from REAL universities in areas for which they have extensive background and education being held by recognized and independent organizations.
You are trying to convince me that those uneducated "leaders" are part of some holy Delphic methodology to provide guidance to its members, when it reality is appears to be a gang of Good Ole Boys who have stuck around a long time kissing arse up the union ladder. You speak of a "great pile of evidence against" my views, but then provide nothing more in the way of proof than the IAM President being asked to lecture on a soapbox by pandering Congressional leaders attempting to secure votes for the next election? How about a complete listing of all FORMAL education from accredited universities and colleges for all the union leaders from the national to the local level? I suspect I would need a 3x5 card to complete it. This union is attempting to match wits with highly trained corporate types with strong backgrounds in finance, management, accounting and law, and you think the membership is on equal footing for negotiations with this "leadership"?
You want some "great pile of evidence"? How about the crap contract? What mental midget thought it was a good idea to allow management to dictate absentee policy outside of the contract? Let us not forget that "brilliant" Change of Control clause either... how did that work for you? You expect me and people to trust your opinion as to the genius of this "leadership" while by your own admission that you "don't have any knowledge on how he obtained his vast education but it's readily apparent..." It is certainly "apparent" all right this is the most anti-intellectual, anti-educational group I have had the sad experience of having been a member and you have done absolutely nothing to convince me otherwise.
So Chastises Jester.
Tim,
The only seminars I can respect are from those in which the participants have already earned REAL degrees from REAL universities in areas for which they have extensive background and education being held by recognized and independent organizations."
"This union is attempting to match wits with highly trained corporate types with strong backgrounds in finance, management, accounting and law, and you think the membership is on equal footing for negotiations with this "leadership"?
quote name='Jester' date='Mar 22 2009, 07:26 AM' post='675574']
Tim,
Sorry, "soft" degrees don't impress me, especially from de facto diploma mills which hold organization seminars with fancy titles over the weekends at which everyone passes from its own training centers no less either. The only seminars I can respect are from those in which the participants have already earned REAL degrees from REAL universities in areas for which they have extensive background and education being held by recognized and independent organizations....How about a complete listing of all FORMAL education from accredited universities and colleges for all the union leaders from the national to the local level? I suspect I would need a 3x5 card to complete it. This union is attempting to match wits with highly trained corporate types with strong backgrounds in finance, management, accounting and law, and you think the membership is on equal footing for negotiations with this "leadership"?
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just attacking your hypothesis as nonsense and rubbish. The onus is on you to prove your hypothesis since I'm not the one making the claim that the union can't match wits with those who have formal education.You are trying to convince me that those uneducated "leaders" are part of some holy Delphic methodology to provide guidance to its members, when it reality is appears to be a gang of Good Ole Boys...
Jester, neither that contract or the last few ones before it were a result of section 6 negotiations. Nonetheless, I seem to recall up to $6 pay raises for many of our brothers and sisters from the west and class 2 stations within the context of a company losing millions and an economy on the catastrophic edge. Do you think Parker would have treated you as well without a union?You want some "great pile of evidence"? How about the crap contract? What mental midget thought it was a good idea to allow management to dictate absentee policy outside of the contract? Let us not forget that "brilliant" Change of Control clause either... how did that work for you? You expect me and people to trust your opinion as to the genius of this "leadership" while by your own admission that you "don't have any knowledge on how he obtained his vast education but it's readily apparent..."
So Chastises Jester.