US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[ableoneable]

"An east pilot who was furloughed (and in some cases one having fewer years of service than the west pilot) will continue to work while the west pilot now trades places with him/her and goes on the street." Care to substantiate that? I'm honestly not aware of any whom that would fit.

Sure,

NAMES AND PERSONAL INFORMATION NOT TO BE POSTED--MOD.
Had been on furlough for about 3.5 years when the merger was announced (which is longer than he had been an active pilot), and without the merger, would have never been recalled;

Despite the fact that Wright did not bring a job to the merger, he is not slated to be furloughed and has 299 active pilots junior to him on the East list;

Despite having an earlier hire date, Wright has nearly the same amount of actual time in active service that Dave Odell does and less time than the most senior west furloughees.

Date of hire places him in front of D Watson P2408, despite the fact that Watson has never been furloughed and has been an active pilot for almost 3 times as long as Wright has.

By date of hire, Wright also becomes senior to 36% (634) of the America West pilot group (all of whom brought jobs to the merger);
Would not be furloughed if the Nicolau Award was in effect today.

"Unless you can suggest a way for me to explain to the FO why he should be furloughed, while an east pilot who had been on the street for two years or more is still working, please let me know." Well..you ARE supposed to be the captain, command of the aircraft, and control of the working enviornment's entirely on you in the end, sir. In the extremely unlikely event I had any FO who was adamantly against a west pilot having the jumpseat..that'd be tough luck for him/her....period...You'd still ride. Principles don't bend to fit my/anyone's comfort levels, Imho.

I sympathize with the soon to be furloughed pilot and I am not about to tell him to "suck it up" and force him to give a ride to a pilot who was on the street for a longer span of years than my FO has been working.

"As far as the chief pilot's office. They are offering full support for pilots who deny the jumpseat for like reasons." Really? That must be a unique phenomenon within the west then.....

What can I tell you. There are west pilots refusing to take east jumpers and not one has been told that he/she can not continue to do so.

 

[ableoneable]

"An east pilot who was furloughed (and in some cases one having fewer years of service than the west pilot) will continue to work while the west pilot now trades places with him/her and goes on the street." Care to substantiate that? I'm honestly not aware of any whom that would fit.

"Unless you can suggest a way for me to explain to the FO why he should be furloughed, while an east pilot who had been on the street for two years or more is still working, please let me know." Well..you ARE supposed to be the captain, command of the aircraft, and control of the working enviornment's entirely on you in the end, sir. In the extremely unlikely event I had any FO who was adamantly against a west pilot having the jumpseat..that'd be tough luck for him/her....period...You'd still ride. Principles don't bend to fit my/anyone's comfort levels, Imho.

"As far as the chief pilot's office. They are offering full support for pilots who deny the jumpseat for like reasons." Really? That must be a unique phenomenon within the west then.....If that's even remotely true?..Enjoy the ability to improperly abuse your coworkers established priveleges here...while it lasts.

Dude, please learn to use the HTML quote command.

I can't tell who wrote what.

put "quote" in brackets prior to your respondent's text and "/quote" in brackets afterward.

 

[ableoneable]

Really? That must be a unique phenomenon within the west then.....If that's even remotely true?..Enjoy the ability to improperly abuse your coworkers established priveleges here...while it lasts.

If I remember correctly it was you and yours who were adamant that on the east the captain was in complete control of the jumpseat and that in the event the Nic list came into use the east would be denying jumpseats and the west could do nothing about it because in the east the captain was the man.

 

[EastUS]

Dude, please learn to use the HTML quote command.

I can't tell who wrote what.

put "quote" in brackets prior to your respondent's text and "/quote" in brackets afterward.

Thanks for the info on the furloughees issue. I was not aware of the more extreme cases involed dates/los/etc.

EastUS: "Well..you ARE supposed to be the captain, command of the aircraft, and control of the working enviornment's entirely on you in the end, sir. In the extremely unlikely event I had any FO who was adamantly against a west pilot having the jumpseat..that'd be tough luck for him/her....period...You'd still ride. Principles don't bend to fit my/anyone's comfort levels, Imho."

ableoneable: "I sympathize with the soon to be furloughed pilot and I am not about to tell him to "suck it up" and force him to give a ride to a pilot who was on the street for a longer span of years than my FO has been working."


Suit yourself sir. As soon as you learn to run a cockpit..I'll listen to any/all advice you have on posting punctuation.

 

[ableoneable]

ableoneable: "I sympathize with the soon to be furloughed pilot and I am not about to tell him to "suck it up" and force him to give a ride to a pilot who was on the street for a longer span of years than my FO has been working."

EastUS: "Well..you ARE supposed to be the captain, command of the aircraft, and control of the working enviornment's entirely on you in the end, sir. In the extremely unlikely event I had any FO who was adamantly against a west pilot having the jumpseat..that'd be tough luck for him/her....period...You'd still ride. Principles don't bend to fit my/anyone's comfort levels, Imho."


Suit yourself sir. As soon as you learn to run a cockpit..I'll listen to any/all advice you have on posting punctuation.

I see that you are still avoiding the meat of my argument, but I will get to that later.

Suit yourself sir. As soon as you learn to run a cockpit..I'll listen to any/all advice you have on posting punctuation.

Typical EastUS; When you can't argue with the logic downshift into the personal attack.

Because I don't feel it appropriate to tell a pilot who is unfairly losing his job to an east furloughee to shut up and give that pilot a ride I don't know how to "run a cockpit."

If I remember correctly it was you who was adamantly stating the if the Nic came into being west pilots would have a hard time jumpseating and there was nothing that they could do about it because on the east side the captains control of the flight deck was unquestioned.

Back to the topic at hand.

You asked me to substantiate my claim that an east pilot with less time on property than the future west furloughee would keep his job and I did.

So this is not in any way a windfall for the east and is an example of the unquestionable supremacy of a DOH methodology?

 

[HighbutFast]

I see that you are still avoiding the meat of my argument, but I will get to that later.



Typical EastUS; When you can't argue with the logic downshift into the personal attack.

Because I don't feel it appropriate to tell a pilot who is unfairly losing his job to an east furloughee to shut up and give that pilot a ride I don't know how to "run a cockpit."

If I remember correctly it was you who was adamantly stating the if the Nic came into being west pilots would have a hard time jumpseating and there was nothing that they could do about it because on the east side the captains control of the flight deck was unquestioned.

Back to the topic at hand.

You asked me to substantiate my claim that an east pilot with less time on property than the future west furloughee would keep his job and I did.

So this is not in any way a windfall for the east and is an example of the unquestionable supremacy of a DOH methodology?

yawn.

blah, blah,blah...

call your union and file a complaint.

 

[nostradamus]

Sure,


What can I tell you. There are west pilots refusing to take east jumpers and not one has been told that he/she can not continue to do so.

There was a west pilot who went to the podium in clt and announced no east jump seats. A representative of the chief pilots office arrived, went down the jet way and told the west pilot a new crew was ready to go if he maintained that attitude. The west pilot promptly allowed the east jump seaters on board. They flew them to their destination. The west pilots failed to realize they had one of the top 3 men in the usapa union on that seat.

By the way ableoneable, you did not apologize when you claimed that the east pilots had a history of not taking care of medical insurance for their furloughed pilots. I provided unquestionable proof that they did, but you failed to retract your statement.

DELETED BY MODERATOR

 

[Mtnman928]

"As far as the chief pilot's office. They are offering full support for pilots who deny the jumpseat for like reasons."

I guess then Chief Pilots and by association the airline management condone this activity and willfully prevent pilots from going to work.

MM

 

[HighbutFast]

Not too many facts at one time Nostradamus...they have to do a group huddle and click their heels three times before any response

I'm over their collective horse@*it...I , for one, will not be bullied by some [deleted]
Get on, get over it, or get out.

Period

And, by the way, Mr. 73's , I see you lurking....just so you know, from now on, I'm officially on [edited- by mod A time out? Not a great way to start off your posting record.]

Wanna talk about resolve?

Bring it.

 

[ableoneable]

There was a west pilot who went to the podium in clt and announced no east jump seats. A representative of the chief pilots office arrived, went down the jet way and told the west pilot a new crew was ready to go if he he maintained that attitude. The west pilot promptly allowed the east jump seater on board. They flew them to their destination. The west pilots failed to realize they had one of the top 3 men in the usapa union on that seat.

By the way ableoneable, you did not apologize when you claimed that the east pilots had a history of not taking care of medical insurance for their furloughed pilots. I provided unquestionable proof that they did, but you failed to retract your statement.

You are a liar sir, and your posts can not be trusted.

Wow, the rarely seen double personal attack.

Let's take them one at a time shall we.

There was a west pilot who went to the podium in clt and announced no east jump seats. A representative of the chief pilots office arrived, went down the jet way and told the west pilot a new crew was ready to go if he he maintained that attitude. The west pilot promptly allowed the east jump seater on board. They flew them to their destination. The west pilots failed to realize they had one of the top 3 men in the usapa union on that seat.

Yes that happened. The problem was that the pilot made a blanket statement saying that he would not take any jumpseaters.

As far as the east assistant chief pilot; He came into the flight deck and told the captain that he would ensure that the FAA give the captain a psych evaluation if the jumpseaters were not allowed to ride. Further he was unprofessional and abusive and thumped both the CA and the FO on the chest during his tirade.

It is now in the hands of HR.

By the way ableoneable, you did not apologize when you claimed that the east pilots had a history of not taking care of medical insurance for their furloughed pilots. I provided unquestionable proof that they did, but you failed to retract your statement.

You are a liar sir, and your posts can not be trusted.

I was trying to speak to the fact that the east has a self admitted history of throwing their junior pilots under the bus. If I missed your reply I do apologize.

I have to laugh at you calling me a liar.

If I remember correctly you were one of the posters who was defending Oldiebutgoodie when he was caught telling contradictory tales. It was suggested that perhaps his wife was using his login, or that his identity was stolen etc. etc. These were all suggested as plausible and completely above board.

I, however am branded a liar.

I see.

 

[HighbutFast]

Wow, the rarely seen double personal attack.

Let's take them one at a time shall we.


Yes that happened. The problem was that the pilot made a blanket statement saying that he would not take any jumpseaters.

As far as the east assistant chief pilot; He came into the flight deck and told the captain that he would ensure that the FAA give the captain a psych evaluation if the jumpseaters were not allowed to ride. Further he was unprofessional and abusive and thumped both the CA and the FO on the chest during his tirade.

It is now in the hands of HR.



I was trying to speak to the fact that the east has a self admitted history of throwing their junior pilots under the bus. If I missed your reply I do apologize.

I have to laugh at you calling me a liar.

If I remember correctly you were one of the posters who was defending Oldiebutgoodie when he was caught telling contradictory tales. It was suggested that perhaps his wife was using his login, or that his identity was stolen etc. etc. These were all suggested as plausible and completely above board.

I, however am branded a liar.

I see.

Uh...well, if the shoe fits.

You guys seem to imply the company will turn a deaf ear to your antics.

This is a public company and Doug works for the shareholders....you guys are farking up the operation with your little tantrums...you will be eliminated..one by one, if you keep it up.

Really nothing else to report..have a nice night.

say "Hi" to my boy 73's..

 

[nostradamus]

Wow, the rarely seen double personal attack.

You post smells of a coward who flaps his jaw incoherently and cries for a moderator. They were not personal attacks, they were facts.

 

[nostradamus]

Uh...well, if the shoe fits.

You guys seem to imply the company will turn a deaf ear to your antics.

This is a public company and Doug works for the shareholders....you guys are farking up the operation with your little tantrums...you will be eliminated..one by one, if you keep it up.

Really nothing else to report..have a nice night.

say "Hi" to my boy 73's..

Please stand by highbut fast. I will answer his questions, thank you.

 

[HighbutFast]

You post smells of a coward who flaps his jaw incoherently and cries for a moderator. They were not personal attacks, they were facts.

Yessir, they were...

hmmm

How rare these days.

I admit, I'm pissed...and every single West pilot will pay for it...

(How's that for a double entendre')

 

[HighbutFast]

Please stand by highbut fast. I will answer his questions, thank you.

Absolutely, I apologize for intruding...but I've had it with these guys.