US pilot labor thread 6/21-6/27

[EastUS]

When you say "those guys", I assume you mean the non paying East guys as well.

I assume that as well. Does that make your own position more comfortable now?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

When you say "those guys", I assume you mean the non paying East guys as well. I also assume that your frothing at the mouth hoping for terminations applies to your fellow pilots as well. I would hate to think the "for all Airways pilots" only applies when the time is right.

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but why would he mean anything else? The bottom line is, there are three categories of pilots at LCC:

1. Dues paying USAPA members

2. Agency Fee paying pilots

3. SCABS, that are soon to be unemployed. SCAB, in this case, means one who refuses to join their own union.

Each individual pilot decides which group they feel more comfortable being a part of.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. When you say "those guys", I assume you mean the non paying East guys as well.
2. I also assume that your frothing at the mouth hoping for terminations applies to your fellow pilots as well.
3. I would hate to think the "for all Airways pilots" only applies when the time is right.

1. Yep, I do. Sad really.
2. Your assumptions are incorrect. I hate to see anyone get into a bind. But then, that is a choice also.
3. It applies to all. Members or not. You can pontificate all you want. It doesn't change my personal feelings or opinions.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That "U-Turn" message at post #58 is really enlightening. Sounds like at least one person gets it. The really amusing part is the stuff about AWAPPA "intimidation". Sounds like there may be some "strong arm" stuff going on which is patently illegal.

 

[elixir]

I spent a lot of money once upon a time looking for answers to some of life's largest questions.

It yielded a few interesting points I'd like to share.

People are always making choices, whether they know it or not. Even when you fail to act on an issue, you've made a choice: that being: not to act.

Insideous little nuances like these are hard to pin down, but they may apply here. There may very well be folks out west who are either doing what they're told, or are NOT doing what they are told, or are doing nothing...and wondering why they are going to be furloughed.

And they blame the East for not choking down the NIC...'cause "no westie would be furloughed then"

Well, I submit that you choose, one way or the other.

You can go down the road with AWAPPA and Leonidas to it's ultimate conclusion. (and on your own for the $$)YOUR CHOICE

You can save your job by paying the legally required dues...or not...YOUR CHOICE.

You can actually get involved with the union...YOUR CHOICE

Or, do nothing YOUR CHOICE.

At the end of the day, you must be comfortable in this decision that you either make or don't make...but are "deciding on" in either case.

In my opinion, it's foolish to paint the company into a corner with the law...they will have to fire every one of you who refuse to ante up...and Parker will look at you squarely in the face and say he had no choice, and he doesn't.

Do what you will.

 

[trunion]

Nah, it's fun to poke your fetid cages, but no one I know gets bent out of shape over what goes on here. You are quite predictible though. Many try to get through to you, but it's like trying to teach a cinder block to fetch.

luvn737s...EastUS was not affected by the Nic award so he speaks from life experience. He believes in his position, not because it is good for him, but the profession.

I am basing my assessment on the many posts I have read here. Most of the East posters would not have been affected by the Nic.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Let me get this right, you want negotiation after the arbitration. .

Maybe someday you'll grasp this about a new contract and what it will take to get it passed by both pilot groups.

I hear the West pilots loud and clear about being in the minority/ the 'tyranny of the majority'. So, I ask you, what's your solution? If every pilot having an equal vote is not acceptable - then what?

 

[trunion]

Very intelligent response, EastUs. "Ummmm....sure....right....roll eyes. My teenage daughter uses the same response when she has absoloutely nothing to say yet she attempts to show me how much smarter she is than I. Your comment regarding Leonidas is pointless. You compare the rhetoric of one, or a handful, discontented west pilots with the collective arrogance of the east. As for the aviation community I speak of....No I don't speaK For everyone, only those I have come across since April 17. You see, I commute to the east coast on any other airline except Us Airways unless I can catch a west flight. EVERY captain I have requested a jumpseat from, and I mean EVERY, has asked whether I was an east or west pilot. The common consensus being that they can't tolerate the east pilots in close proximity. The east pilots must have an awful time getting to work these days.

Regarding the decorated USAF verteran calling the west pilots punks. I, too, am a decorated USAF veteran and none of my peers go around calling other pilots punks. They do, however, recognize a severe lack of integrity and honor and won't hesitate to let you know how they feel about you.

Believe me, some people say what ever you want to hear. If you had said you were from the East, they would have been on your side too. They just do not want to get caught up in it.
While commuting, many Southwest pilots based in Pheonix have said they feel for the east and hope everything works out for us... I'm sure you have similar stories to share.

 

[trunion]

As I told your pal EastUs, you are comparing relatively few west pilots with the collective arrogance of the east. Regarding jumpseat denials, I believe other airlines are denying the east as well. EVERY time I jumpseat I am questioned whether I am east or west and nobody appears to like the east.

Again... they are asking you so they know where you stand. The same thing happens to East pilots and people back them.

THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT. WOULD YOU?

 

[elixir]

You know, it's funny that the west blames the east for the east's sad, sad condition with USAir.
To that, I say this: they betrusted ALPA and the ALPA unit at AAA with their very livelihood, careers, and bargaining position throughout multiple CEO's, 9/11, and a few BK's....guess what? the allure that ALPA national had for enough of AAA's reps became a detriment to the group as a whole.
When that became obvious to the pilot group, they did what they were empowered to do under ALPA...file motions to change directions...and ALPA at the AAA level and national level fought back, hard...every step of the way.

After many, many ALPA sanctioned concessions, and closed door meetings that decimated the pilots at AAA....they fought back.

And the HP pilots got caught in the crosshairs. This is much more than NIC to the East, and that is why you underestimated their resolve.
Going forward, you can join in the larger battle (survival as a group and company)....or you can abstain and become a statistic with the rest of the "Cactus 118"

Time to choose.

 

[Flyz4food]

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but why would he mean anything else? The bottom line is, there are three categories of pilots at LCC:

1. Dues paying USAPA members

2. Agency Fee paying pilots

3. SCABS, that are soon to be unemployed. SCAB, in this case, means one who refuses to join their own union.

Each individual pilot decides which group they feel more comfortable being a part of.

See, I had a union. It was numerically removed from the property. How it was done is still debated, that's not the issue. Are you going to just fire those that owe, or are you at least going to send out a bill?

 

[elixir]

See, I had a union. It was numerically removed from the property. How it was done is still debated, that's not the issue. Are you going to just fire those that owe, or are you at least going to send out a bill?

Brother, you still have a union, just ask S. Kirby. And the new union does not want your job, or for you to lose your job...the company issued the order, not the union.

Your "pals" at AWAPPA have tried gallantly to derail YOUR NEW LEGAL UNION to no avail. The company will only talk to the legal union on property....AWAPPA is nothing but a gun club, or hobby.

My suggestion to you, as a dude who just wants to finish out a P.O.S. career (thanks 9/11)...get on the bus, or get caught up in the traffic lane on their way to term...stupid. (IMO)

PS, the union isn't going to fire anyone, the union is going to notify the COMPANY of who is abstaining, and THE COMPANY IS GOING TO FIRE YOU.

Not the union.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. See, I had a union. It was numerically removed from the property. How it was done is still debated, that's not the issue.
2. Are you going to just fire those that owe, or are you at least going to send out a bill?

1. Wow. You're right, how it was accomplished is most definitely not the issue. Its over with and done. You still have a union though. Too bad you choose to not participate in it. Those pesky choices again, don't you know.
2. From what I've gathered, some bills went out Friday with the rest to be mailed this week. Unless a problem cropped up that I haven't heard about yet.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

See, I had a union. It was numerically removed from the property. How it was done is still debated, that's not the issue. Are you going to just fire those that owe, or are you at least going to send out a bill?

Debated by whom? Even the NMB dismissed ALL challenges. Better get a clue before August.

 

[checksix]

See, I had a union. It was numerically removed from the property. Are you going to just fire those that owe, or are you at least going to send out a bill?

You have a union, you just choose not to participate as a union member - your choice.

Don't ask us how the union will deal with the issue, ask your union! For heaven's sakes, do you people need to be led around by the hand, last week it was luvn737 that went on for 28 pages with a question that he could have had answered himself. We here are just pilots participating on a web board, we are no different from you.

If your address is correct, I am sure you will get a bill. If not, the company will contact you in July or August for payment. If you want more information contact your union. Failing to pay will get your walking papers from the company, as I understand it. One way or the other, you will pay your owed dues or you will no longer work here. NLC says he's not paying, anyone want to bet he does?