US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

The reason that the AWA pilots wanted to dump ALPA was that they wanted a more aggressive negotiating stance than ALPA was willing to provide. The much ballyhooed "ALPA Toolbox" seemed to be locked and no one was willing to get a key cut for the AWA pilots.
.

So, Its OK when you guys wanted to dump ALPA but not when we want to try to get something better.

 

[N924PS]

It still says USAirways on the jets, and it is OUR certificate, so I think you are the one who works for a different airline................

Until you are required to say "Cactus" in front of the flight number. Or when your release says "AWE".

You're right though. It is our certificate. Both of ours.

Go watch the Super Bowl, enjoy a day away from BS, BS.

 

[john john]

Although America West had better pay and work rules than most of their peers, such as ATA, Airtran, National, World, Braniff, Vanguard,Reno, etc...

HP agents had the worst paid and work rules in the industry. Help subsidize union work groups

 

[luvthe9]

Until you are required to say "Cactus" in front of the flight number. Or when your release says "AWE".

You're right though. It is our certificate. Both of ours.

Go watch the Super Bowl, enjoy a day away from BS, BS.

Hey, our favorite turncoat is back "Mr. my money is on Doug Parker", get stuck in the storm? Still can't wait for that #1 spot in sunny PHX. They are certainly going to love you out there. Go Colts!!!!!

 

[N924PS]

Hey, our favorite turncoat is back "Mr. my money is on Doug Parker", get stuck in the storm? Still can't wait for that #1 spot in sunny PHX. They are certainly going to love you out there. Go Colts!!!!!

You just won't believe me Luv. I am not the one you think will be #1 in PHX some day.

Go Saints!!!!!

 

[EastUS]

Would you still be so eager for separate ops if you had gotten DOH? .

Since you asked = YES!! You simply can NOT imagine how completely pleased I'd be with never having to even consider the remote possibility of ever flying with your bunch!!

 

[luvthe9]

You just won't believe me Luv. I am not the one you think will be #1 in PHX some day.

Go Saints!!!!!

I knew you would be picking the Saints!!! but that's OK as long as it's a good game!!!

 

[EastUS]

I agree that they don't care for us, they care about the bottom line. There is no love fest between management and pilots at SW Airlines but are able to work together. Pilots get paid more and the company is able to report a profit.

They must be doing something right other than hedging fuel and flying bags for free.

They indeed are doing a great deal right. From the start; SWest was a cookie-cutter product of PSA, and imediately established the same basic operational notions:

Use ridiculous, but visually compelling paint schemes...less only the smile on PSA's aircraft. 😉 Fair's fair..Tempe has put on a few ridiculous paint schemes on a handfull of aircraft.

Encouraged an enviornment wherein employees interacted with passengers in a "let's all have fun" feeling, as much as is possible.
no one at Rio Salado would ever conceive of such a thing....Better to bombard customers, held as "hostages" with sales pitches inflight/etc.

Herb and crew "dug in" with the employees, going so far as to personally take a day each year to even throw bags/etc, and weren't completely removed players in some corporate glass house. There was evidenced behavior that they (Gasp!/Choke!?Just Imagine!) actually cared about the people who worked there, realizing that motivated employees translates into superior performance in both customer relations and operational efficiencies. Tempe cares nothing for these notions.

When SWest was in it's intial and strugging phase; large stock options were granted employees, so as to motivate them and make up for "times otherwise being tough". A goodly number of early-on SWest pilots even became millionaires that way. Team Tempe wouldn't ever willingly give employees the sweat off their dog's -----.

SWest had rational and aggressive marketing and was always seeking out viable route expansion. Tempe clearly can't come up with anything other than "Industry capacity needs to be reduced."

The sad list could continue for hours, but...the final analysis is that SWest had/still has actually talented, versus just absurdly over-compensated, capable management and even leadership with something that's not to be seen at US..which is VISION.....enough said.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The sad list could continue for hours, but...the final analysis is that SWest had/still has actually talented, versus just absurdly over-compensated, capable management and even leadership with something that's not to be seen at US..which is VISION.....enough said.

What's really frightening is that you have outlined in a matter of minutes, and on an anonymous chat board, the secret play book to success. There is nothing secret about SW's success; it's common sense and nothing more. So if Parker and gang, or Greenberg at AIG, or whomever else in the majority of corporate America these days chooses to disregard this "magic" formula and embark on courses that emaciate their respective companies but stuffs their personal bank accounts, then there can be only one logical conclusion about this widespread business practice: it represents the worst of the human condition and is exactly what Karl Marx warned of. Marx couldn't have been more wrong but at the same time couldn't have been more right. America is being looted from within, and therein lies our greatest vulnerability. I wonder if those soldiers at Normandy or the Marines at Iwo Jima could have ever fathomed that their sacrifices would pave the way for world dominance by American corporations that then enabled this horrific draining of world labor and natural resources.

 

[EastUS]

There is nothing secret about SW's success; it's common sense and nothing more. So if Parker and gang, or Greenberg at AIG, or whomever else in the majority of corporate America these days chooses to disregard this "magic" formula and embark on courses that emaciate their respective companies but stuffs their personal bank accounts, then there can be only one logical conclusion about this widespread business practice: it represents the worst of the human condition and is exactly what Karl Marx warned of. Marx couldn't have been more wrong but at the same time couldn't have been more right. America is being looted from within, and therein lies our greatest vulnerability. I wonder if those soldiers at Normandy or the Marines at Iwo Jima could have ever fathomed that their sacrifices would pave the way for world dominance by American corporations that then enabled this horrific draining of world labor and natural resources.

I also, most certainly would wish things were otherwise, but, all I can say is; 100% agreed with here!!!...More's the great pity/tragedy for our people and our Nation.....

 

[HPearlyretiree]

They indeed are doing a great deal right. From the start; SWest was a cookie-cutter product of PSA, and imediately established the same basic operational notions:

Use ridiculous, but visually compelling paint schemes...less only the smile on PSA's aircraft. 😉 Fair's fair..Tempe has put on a few ridiculous paint schemes on a handfull of aircraft.

Encouraged an enviornment wherein employees interacted with passengers in a "let's all have fun" feeling, as much as is possible.
no one at Rio Salado would ever conceive of such a thing....Better to bombard customers, held as "hostages" with sales pitches inflight/etc.

Herb and crew "dug in" with the employees, going so far as to personally take a day each year to even throw bags/etc, and weren't completely removed players in some corporate glass house. There was evidenced behavior that they (Gasp!/Choke!?Just Imagine!) actually cared about the people who worked there, realizing that motivated employees translates into superior performance in both customer relations and operational efficiencies. Tempe cares nothing for these notions.

When SWest was in it's intial and strugging phase; large stock options were granted employees, so as to motivate them and make up for "times otherwise being tough". A goodly number of early-on SWest pilots even became millionaires that way. Team Tempe wouldn't ever willingly give employees the sweat off their dog's -----.

SWest had rational and aggressive marketing and was always seeking out viable route expansion. Tempe clearly can't come up with anything other than "Industry capacity needs to be reduced."

The sad list could continue for hours, but...the final analysis is that SWest had/still has actually talented, versus just absurdly over-compensated, capable management and even leadership with something that's not to be seen at US..which is VISION.....enough said.

Actually, in the old days, Ed and Mike would throw bags, and HP employees were granted stock options and it was a "lets have fun feeling". It was a good time, some folks in the company warned against silly expansion, ancient 747's to nowhere and such, but, that's life


PSA was a great airline too, what happened to them? Oh yeah, the bumbling USAir came and destroyed everything that made PSA great, frittered away every route and sucked the very life and soul out of every PSA employee.

You wonder why people don't care for USAir(ways)? You all should have gone Chapter 7 five years ago.

 

[EastUS]

Actually, in the old days, Ed and Mike would throw bags, and HP employees were granted stock options and it was a "lets have fun feeling". It was a good time, some folks in the company warned against silly expansion, ancient 747's to nowhere and such, but, that's life


PSA was a great airline too, what happened to them? Oh yeah, the bumbling USAir came and destroyed everything that made PSA great, frittered away every route and sucked the very life and soul out of every PSA employee.

You wonder why people don't care for USAir(ways)? You all should have gone Chapter 7 five years ago.

Firstly; as an ex-PSA myself, it must be noted that PSA's management had lost their way and strayed light years from what had originally established and enriched the company. In much the same fashion you note the inadvisability of the 747's/etc....PSA's mgmt had performed some amazing blunders along the way.....which placed it into the perilous scenario of being purchased by equally, or even more clueless people. I can assure you though, that my soul's still intact...at least I pray Allmighty God feels so 😉 I couldn't care less what any corporate entity does, or has to say on that issue, nor have I ever, nor will ever empower any such to suck the very life and soul from me 😉 Life's a bit bigger than that......

I'm a bit confused here though = If there's any semblance of an excuse for Team Tempe and the current conditions intended in that posting....well....suffice it to say that it's extremely elusive.

 

[snapthis]

Hey, our favorite turncoat is back "Mr. my money is on Doug Parker", get stuck in the storm? Still can't wait for that #1 spot in sunny PHX. They are certainly going to love you out there. Go Colts!!!!!

Colts on the ground , Colts on the ground, you lookin like a fool with the Colts on the ground!

Congrats Saints, geaux Tigers!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Firstly; as an ex-PSA myself, it must be noted that PSA's management had lost their way and strayed light years from what had originally established and enriched the company. In much the same fashion you note the inadvisability of the 747's/etc....PSA's mgmt had performed some amazing blunders along the way.....which placed it into the perilous scenario of being purchased by equally, or even more clueless people. I can assure you though, that my soul's still intact...at least I pray Allmighty God feels so 😉 I couldn't care less what any corporate entity does, or has to say on that issue, nor have I ever, nor will ever empower any such to suck the very life and soul from me 😉 Life's a bit bigger than that......

I'm a bit confused here though = If there's any semblance of an excuse for Team Tempe and the current conditions intended in that posting....well....suffice it to say that it's extremely elusive.

I'm glad you survived your former carrier, I really am. I hope that you understand that the AWA guys don't want to see the legacy of their airline similarly destroyed. I was one of the few loud angry guys back in '89 when the cockamamie 18 year old 747's flying came. Too many people were so excited about the possibility of SYD (and not the "what do we do with 4 747's if we don't get it) that they were not thinking. I remember being a pariah in my department because I was trying to keep our budget down while everyone wanted to spend like crazy, but that was my job.

I guess we can both agree that US kills everything it touches...

 

[EastUS]

I hope that you understand that the AWA guys don't want to see the legacy of their airline similarly destroyed.

I remember being a pariah in my department because I was trying to keep our budget down while everyone wanted to spend like crazy, but that was my job.

I guess we can both agree that US kills everything it touches...

The first, I can completely understand. The second...well...at least you put up a fight for what you believed to be needed...that's all any can ever really do. "Sometimes ya' win..sometimes/etc".

The third? = Not-So-Much at present. While NO Mgmt has at ALL, truly much impressed me over many years at US....the ball's entirely in Tempe's court now. What they do with the resources and people's completely up to them. I'd love to be entirely wrong, and certainly hope that I am with the following bit of pessimism, but; barring an additional transaction/merger/whatever...or, perhaps better yet = a complete "change of command"...well...I'd be amazed to see the place still operating 3 years hence.