US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[traderjake]

Problem was, West got an arbitration result so out of our thinking that we couldn't stomach it.

We both think we hold moral high ground. We both always will. It's pointless to continue to debate who was right. If Addington is reversed, it doesn't really answer who was right, only who won the legal battle.

The last three seniority arbitrations say you're wrong.

If we lose Addington the courts say you're wrong.

The problem is your thinking is so out of touch with reality.

 

[Black Swan]

I will join you in saying again....

The West pilots are. and were, eligible for Section 6 negotiations under their contract well before the East's contract became amenable on 1/1/10. They are not subject to LOA 93, 84 or anything else that the East pilots are subject to under the AAA agreements and the modifications to any such agreements made bu any bankruptcy judge. So the West has been losing simply by not having their contract renegotiated during the time that the AAA contract was not amenable.

What have the furloughed AWA pilots gained since the merger announcement in May 2005? A quick refresher would show that at the time of the merger announcement a new hire class actually was in training and another class had been selected and established, but was terminated do to the merger. When was the last time, prior to the merger announcement, that US Airways had a new hire class for pilots?

What have the current AWA pilots gained since the merger announcement? With the help of the east, a DC plan, and they got profit sharing. All with help from the East. Meanwhile, the West did NOTHING for pay parity, and basically laughs at the situation. This is something you don't hear on this board. Kind of like the AWA management pilot group being busted for flying dope in the DC 6 way back. Check it out. This was a morally superior group, always loaded with integrity. Right............

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Since ALPA's own attorneys disagree with you, I would conclude that your friends just agreed with you to end the conversation.

The reason for decreasing union membership is because unions, like ALPA, continue to have unworkable policies like ALPA's merger "nonpolicy".

As for the over my head part, I seriously doubt it.

Maybe there's a reason that Lawyers have such a great reputation. I even recently drove by an establishment with a sign posted out front "No Lawyers Allowed". In my opinion they had a great business plan!

Reason for declining union membership is GREED. Unions run by goons and making it unprofitable for businesses to keep their factories in the USA.

"Sundown on the union, what was made in the USA, sure was a good idea, till greed got in the way......"

 

[Black Swan]

Reason for declining union membership is GREED. Unions run by goons and making it unprofitable for businesses to keep their factories in the USA.

"Sundown on the union, what was made in the USA, sure was a good idea, till greed got in the way......"

You must have been right at home with your Lorenzo Franke management team! All about union bashing, while stuffing the cash into their pockets. Nice job. You really thought you were on top of things. All the while, Southwest, one of the most unionized companies in the USA ran circles around you guys.And you never did figure out that it wasn't all about the wages did you! Your AWA was one of the biggest dirt bag outfits in the industry for years. Nobody wanted to go there.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What have the current AWA pilots gained since the merger announcement? With the help of the east, a DC plan, and they got profit sharing. All with help from the East. Meanwhile, the West did NOTHING for pay parity, and basically laughs at the situation. This is something you don't hear on this board. Kind of like the AWA management pilot group being busted for flying dope in the DC 6 way back. Check it out. This was a morally superior group, always loaded with integrity. Right............

We supported pay parity, in fact we were working hand in hand towards a new contract, remember coast to coast? In fact we still support it, once you guys and your tantrum runs it's course. You guys pulled out of that and put a gun to our heads, and then demanded pay parity 'right now, while we go about our thuggery.' You always leave that out and attempt to revise history.

 

[Black Swan]

So seniority can mean "higher in rank" or "precedance of position". That makes a widebody captain senior to a narrow body captain, a captain senior to a F/O, a working F/O senior to a non-working F/O. Sounds like the Nic to me...

Jim

Oh boy, lets' paint this one with a sore ALPA brush.............

 

[Black Swan]

We supported pay parity, in fact we were working hand in hand towards a new contract, remember coast to coast? In fact we still support it, once you guys and your tantrum runs it's course. You guys pulled out of that and put a gun to our heads, and then demanded pay parity 'right now, while we go about our thuggery.' You always leave that out and attempt to revise history.

Oh we really believe this. Just look at some of the real supportive names on this board, and the little messages. Just remember. If we get the LOA 84 rates, you guys will really be smoked. Doug will laugh, so will we. You need the joint contract way more than we do. We know it, and you will never get it.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

You must have been right at home with your Lorenzo Franke management team! All about union bashing, while stuffing the cash into their pockets. Nice job. You really thought you were on top of things. All the while, Southwest, one of the most unionized companies in the USA ran circles around you guys.And you never did figure out that it wasn't all about the wages did you! Your AWA was one of the biggest dirt bag outfits in the industry for years. Nobody wanted to go there.

Yeah, blah blah blah, evil companies..

Unions are so NOT corrupt! LOL You are part of a decaying and dying breed.

SW has unions that know how to behave in the real world, not an entitlement/attack culture like USAPA.

Yeah, AWA was dirtbag....without them, you'd be cutting PVC pipes at Home Depot right now

 

[cactusboy53]

What have the current AWA pilots gained since the merger announcement? With the help of the east, a DC plan, and they got profit sharing. All with help from the East. Meanwhile, the West did NOTHING for pay parity, and basically laughs at the situation. This is something you don't hear on this board. Kind of like the AWA management pilot group being busted for flying dope in the DC 6 way back. Check it out. This was a morally superior group, always loaded with integrity. Right............

1. NOTHING. 145+ former AWA pilots furloghed out of seniority order.
2. Thanks for taking credit for the "east.....got profit sharing".
3. You'll have to speak to LCC about "pay parity". I don't care if you get it or not (based of course on our "union" action & intent).
4. YHGTBKM!!....dope...DC6??? are you on crack? Why not mention when you were on the ark first with your father Noah (obviously you are Shem and I am Japheth ....since you were born FIRST) BTW, your walker is next to the jetway Pops, don't forget to pick it up.....

I don't know about "morally superior group, always loaded with integrity".., but one of my FAVORITE PROVERBS is 10:9....."The one who lives with integrity lives seurely, bot whoever perverts his ways will be found out"

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Oh we really believe this. Just look at some of the real supportive names on this board, and the little messages. Just remember. If we get the LOA 84 rates, you guys will really be smoked. Doug will laugh, so will we. You need the joint contract way more than we do. We know it, and you will never get it.

Nothing is out of the realm of possibility, but one thing we've learned out west in the last five years is your results don't come any where near matching your bluster.

 

[Flippin43]

1) Indeed.....and that's a two-edged sword that cuts both ways.

Indeed it a two edged sword, as you and I might not agree on whats fair, which not surprisingly led to Arbitration where you and I surrenderd our idea of "Fairness" to the Arbitraitor version.

2) Show me anywhere/anytime I've given you or anyone else out west my personal word and not kept it....? Spare me any further BS about "Integrity".

Thats right I forgot, the only ones who gave their word and are bound by the Arbitration are the Merger committee members .....................right. That didn't work in the courtroom and wont work here.

PS: Heck...I don't even deny your folks jumpseats!...and yet...I've yet to recieve so much as a cactus pin, or at least a merit badge for my scout's uniform for even that! 😉


I haul your guys and have never asked for anything. Somebody wants to get somewhere, I take'm

Flip.

 

[Hate2fly]

Oh we really believe this. Just look at some of the real supportive names on this board, and the little messages. Just remember. If we get the LOA 84 rates, you guys will really be smoked. Doug will laugh, so will we. You need the joint contract way more than we do. We know it, and you will never get it.

Swan,

The westies are in a poor position. The 9th is about to spank them on the ripeness issue......premature adjudication. LOA 93 will be a fatal blow to the west. I won't even get into MDA. We in the east are 16 months from the attrition going wild from sick/LTD. 16 months from now we will have pilots in the east 63.5 years old with full sick banks..........the east will have to recall all furloughed pilots and will begin to hire off the street. These new pilots will always vote with the east, for the attrition.....they will be 5 year captains in the east. We in the east are 28 months away from the massive east attrition for the rest of our careers. June of 2012 will be here before you know it and the company will have to start to ramp up the training, because when December 2012 rolls around each and every day another pilot in the east turns 65.

All the risk is on the west side!

Hate

 

[Flippin43]

Hmmm.....If we're to assume that all jurors present read and fully understood the nic, how things work in the airline bizz, etc... ...One might then at least briefly wonder...I mean....umm....well: Are you completely certain that it wasn't the OJay jury reconstituted for the case? :blink:

East,

You could be on to something. I was there and the Jury was not asked if they knew OJ or had an opinion of his guilt. Or if they held an opinion on Double Murder for that matter.


Flip

 

[nycbusdriver]

I will join you in saying again....

The West pilots are. and were, eligible for Section 6 negotiations under their contract well before the East's contract became amenable on 1/1/10. They are not subject to LOA 93, 84 or anything else that the East pilots are subject to under the AAA agreements and the modifications to any such agreements made bu any bankruptcy judge. So the West has been losing simply by not having their contract renegotiated during the time that the AAA contract was not amenable.

So, somehow USAPA is responsible for the west MEC's failure to enter into Section 6 negotiations at the first opportunity? This all occurred before USAPA even existed, but now the west MEC's decision (and the miraculous negotiations they otherwise would have performed with Parker and Kirby) are valid reasons to blame USAPA for slow negotiations?

Is that the point you are making?

Did you learn that in law school, too?

 

[Metroyet]

Swan,

The westies are in a poor position. The 9th is about to spank them on the ripeness issue......premature adjudication. LOA 93 will be a fatal blow to the west. I won't even get into MDA. We in the east are 16 months from the attrition going wild from sick/LTD. 16 months from now we will have pilots in the east 63.5 years old with full sick banks..........the east will have to recall all furloughed pilots and will begin to hire off the street. These new pilots will always vote with the east, for the attrition.....they will be 5 year captains in the east. We in the east are 28 months away from the massive east attrition for the rest of our careers. June of 2012 will be here before you know it and the company will have to start to ramp up the training, because when December 2012 rolls around each and every day another pilot in the east turns 65.

All the risk is on the west side!

Hate

And you just wait until the Dragon Fairies hear about this!!!! They're going to cast a level 9 spell of consumption upon all those who believe in the false prophet of Justice!!! Mark my words!!!! When the moon enters the Capricorn position...in the house of Virgo.... all Easties will hex the West and....they'll pay.....OH THEY'LL PAY!!!!!!!!

Once again, we've got them exactly where we want them! Our plan has played out perfectly! We're still paid less than many commuter airlines and we have a contract with Sub-Mesa Work rules!.

God willing, we can keep it that way for eternity. The Plan is flawless.

Hail Seham!!!! The Goddess of Fleece!!!!!!