US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

That stuff sounds better coming out of this guy!

Yea, but it's still the truth!!!

 

[boeingplt]

What good is an industry leading contract if the company can't pay the bills? Us Air was always a lousy operation brought to Tempe. They are the poster child for a dysfunctional company that should have died long ago.

You can't fix stupid.

Are you saying that if US Airways pilots had another $400 mil in their contract last year that US Airways would have lost another $400 mil?

 

[Metroyet]

And which management team does the west brag survived the merger?

Was Colodny a genius? How about Wolf/Gangwal? Seigle? I'm sure I've left a few out since NOBODY has been able to fix a fundamentally broken airline. Parker is no idiot. He knows how to make himself rich. He's done it. He doomed America West by hanging the anchor of AAA's CASM around their necks. How much better off do you think the employees will be if your dream of a 41% retroactive payraise were to come true?

Thankfully there is zero percent chance of that happening. Read the 19 page opening statement from the company to Kasher (the same guy that "Kashtrated" the Alaska Pilots btw) USAPA is lying through their teeth to even *hint* at the chances of winning this grievance. The cost profiles agreed to prior to bankruptcy proceedings are a matter of law. Kasher isn't going to change that. Of course, nobody is dumb enough to believe that USAPAs real intent is to get a common contract, this grievance is really the only teeny tiny shred of hope they can pretend to offer as far as a "nicless" payraise is concerned.

Parella knows it's a lie but who cares right? Just another highly expensive, hopeless goose chase sponsored by the grossly underpaid constituency. Let's see DOH, Contract in 3 months, getting your pension restored, winning addington, winning the 9th, getting pay restored...I'm sure I left some out.

All failures. Some of the dues paying members (1.95% just like ALPA...another lie) actually care if ANY relevant OBTAINABLE business get's conducted on behalf of those that are way overpaying dues. The hopelessly scattered, frenetic, dictatorial approach to unionism is going exactly nowhere.

BTW, does anybody believe Cleary when he states that it's really in our best interest to eliminate the EVP position? I know I do.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The cost profiles agreed to prior to bankruptcy proceedings are a matter of law.

A matter of LAW? Pretty high falutin' words there. I'm impressed, counsel. Please, give us the numbers of the House and Senate bills, and the date President Bush signed these cost profiles into LAW!

or, or you simply inferring that these cost profiles come under general contract law? Like the contract being arbitrated? That kind of law?

 

[hp_fa]

America West stopped hiring in preparation for bankruptcy.

No, they stopped hiring after the merger was announced. A class that was accepted for training was subsequently let go. The reason was that the merger partner, US Airways, had pilots furloughed.

It had nothing to do with a possible bankruptcy.

 

[snapthis]

And which management team does the west brag survived the merger?

I thought Bular & Hogg were alive and well. :blink:

 

[snapthis]

Are you saying that if US Airways pilots had another $400 mil in their contract last year that US Airways would have lost another $400 mil?

Exactly where would that $400 million come from? Added to a $500 million loss the company had last year?

Should have negotiated an industry leading contract in 2006 when the company was in a position to offer a better contract.

Just water (and money) under the bridge.....

 

[Black Swan]

Things that make you go hummmm.

The LOA 93 grievance hearings, USAPA publishes for everyone’s ease of reading the union’s opening statement. But the companies opening statement they do not publish and stick way back in the web site. Now knowing the level of curiosity of the east pilots my guess is that very few east pilots bothered to go looking for that opener.

It is 19 pages I suggest that everyone take the time and go find and read that statement. It is very informative and everyone can make up their own minds about the chances of winning this grievance. Pay attention to this phrase.




This may be significant later. There is a lot of really good information in there that most east pilots may not know or want to know or will admit to knowing. The part about the bankruptcy and the 1113(E) filing really gets the attention. How long did you guys say you had before liquidating?



I also ask myself, self how is it that they can publish the transcript for the opening of usapa and the company done on two different days but it is going to take two weeks before they release the transcripts from the whole hearing. Why the delay? What is it that they are trying to hide? Obliviously they have these days why wait two weeks? Could it be so everyone forgets and does not bother to read any of them? Just asking.

My prediction is that USAPA loses this big. The next thing to happen will be another round of the blame game. That it will be all ALPA’s fault. A rehash of the T/A 8 loss. That ALPA did not tell usapa these things. That ALPA should have done this that or the other. That the ALPA witnesses were bad, liars, paid off or had some ulterior agenda. But it will not be usapa’s fault, the grievances chairman’s fault, no one that invented this thing, filed it or prosecuted it will be to blame for this. That will be the spin, the truth will be something a little different.

Yo Mythbuster- you really don't have a handle on any of this, and you make it clear every time you try and "educate" us. You made the case as to why we smoked ALPA off the property. Not the blame game, It was right in your little edification. Bill Pollock handing the letters to Jerry Glass. Have you figured it out? Apparently not. Our own MEC chair was passing documents to the company negotiator! Blame Game? Wow, you really have no idea as to what was going on, and why we made ALPA a SMOKING HOLE. They sold us out.Why don't you worry about what little you have a grasp on, and let us deal with what we know happened. You have no idea, and it is clear every time you try to butt in.

 

[Black Swan]

Things that make you go hummmm.

The LOA 93 grievance hearings, USAPA publishes for everyone’s ease of reading the union’s opening statement. But the companies opening statement they do not publish and stick way back in the web site. Now knowing the level of curiosity of the east pilots my guess is that very few east pilots bothered to go looking for that opener.

It is 19 pages I suggest that everyone take the time and go find and read that statement. It is very informative and everyone can make up their own minds about the chances of winning this grievance. Pay attention to this phrase.




This may be significant later. There is a lot of really good information in there that most east pilots may not know or want to know or will admit to knowing. The part about the bankruptcy and the 1113(E) filing really gets the attention. How long did you guys say you had before liquidating?



I also ask myself, self how is it that they can publish the transcript for the opening of usapa and the company done on two different days but it is going to take two weeks before they release the transcripts from the whole hearing. Why the delay? What is it that they are trying to hide? Obliviously they have these days why wait two weeks? Could it be so everyone forgets and does not bother to read any of them? Just asking.

My prediction is that USAPA loses this big. The next thing to happen will be another round of the blame game. That it will be all ALPA’s fault. A rehash of the T/A 8 loss. That ALPA did not tell usapa these things. That ALPA should have done this that or the other. That the ALPA witnesses were bad, liars, paid off or had some ulterior agenda. But it will not be usapa’s fault, the grievances chairman’s fault, no one that invented this thing, filed it or prosecuted it will be to blame for this. That will be the spin, the truth will be something a little different.

You better hope we lose it, because if it does not go your way, we have no reason to engage you in a contract ever again. Fend for yourselves. Ask yourself, how did you get your DC Plan and the profit share? We all know the answer to that..........

 

[luvn737s]

You better hope we lose it, because if it does not go your way, we have no reason to engage you in a contract ever again. Fend for yourselves. Ask yourself, how did you get your DC Plan and the profit share? We all know the answer to that..........

I'm not sure who the "we" is that you refer to , but the USAPA portion of that "we" is obligated to negotiate, present and defend a combined contract that includes the Nicolau list for membership ratification. If they choose to continue to sit on the pot, Judge Wake has the perfect laxative!

 

[john john]

Reason for declining union membership is GREED. Unions run by goons and making it unprofitable for businesses to keep their factories in the USA.

"Sundown on the union, what was made in the USA, sure was a good idea, till greed got in the way......"

Please give use the time line of your airline work groups voting in a union. HP has seen every work group organize over the years because WHY????

 

[boeingplt]

Exactly where would that $400 million come from? Added to a $500 million loss the company had last year?

Should have negotiated an industry leading contract in 2006 when the company was in a position to offer a better contract.

Just water (and money) under the bridge.....

How does the Company lose money yet have an increase in Cash?

The whole equation is one of where they get the money to survive not if. Historically it has come from us due to subscription to notion that you seem to espouse, that we can make the Company thrive patched up with our financial bandaids.

If we stop letting them treat us like a colossal ATM they will do what our more successful competition does - survive by offering a quality product provided by motivated employees.

Subsidizing ineptitude is a downward spiral but I suspect that convincing you of that is made near impossible due to what I perceive as an insatiable desire on your part to see USAPA fail on all fronts - reference your moniker.

 

[luvn737s]

If we stop letting them treat us like a colossal ATM they will do what our more successful competition does - survive by offering a quality product provided by motivated employees.

No they won't. There is no evidence that they have ever done anything more than manage a commodity by squeaking from crisis to crisis. Load them down with excessive costs they cannot cover and the airline fails. Simple as that.

Subsidizing ineptitude is a downward spiral but I suspect that convincing you of that is made near impossible due to what I perceive as an insatiable desire on your part to see USAPA fail on all fronts - reference your moniker.

No, many folks would love to see USAPA survive, just not in it's current self-defeating form and under it's current inept management

 

[End of USAPA]

How does the Company lose money yet have an increase in Cash?

The whole equation is one of where they get the money to survive not if. Historically it has come from us due to subscription to notion that you seem to espouse, that we can make the Company thrive patched up with our financial bandaids.

If we stop letting them treat us like a colossal ATM they will do what our more successful competition does - survive by offering a quality product provided by motivated employees.

Subsidizing ineptitude is a downward spiral but I suspect that convincing you of that is made near impossible due to what I perceive as an insatiable desire on your part to see USAPA fail on all fronts - reference your moniker.

That's right we wanted ALPA to fail too! And we were close to a contract and here we are two years later with another three years to go. HEre comes my attrition. We didn't want ALPA remember that? We have let ourselves be an ATM but I got my attirtion now! IT was all worth it. Thanks! 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

How does the Company lose money yet have an increase in Cash?

The whole equation is one of where they get the money to survive not if.

The first is partly simple accounting - some of the expenses on the P&L are non-cash expenses. Depreciation is a good example - the money was spent at some time in the past but expensed over the life of the item. A 330 that was bought in 2000 wasn't a large expense on the P&L that year but is still being expensed, for example. The other part is raising new money - you do remember rescheduling the Airbus deliveries last November. Putting off deliveries frees up the money already paid (progress payments) toward the original delivery date, adding cash to US' balance sheet. Also the issuance of debt last year brought in cash. So as long as they can bring in more cash than the loses reduce cash, US can lose money but increase cash. The problem is that a company can't do that forever - at some point sources of new cash dry up and cash then begins to decline. That's the position US found itself in during BK2 - any new cash was being spent as fast or faster than it came in, and the cash balance kept dropping. US had effectively run out of cash a month before the merger.

The second part most definitely does not have the "if". There are only so many airplanes on order - they can't defer deliveries on planes not on order. At some point the interest debt eats up cash faster than new debt can bring in. There is no magic "money tree" in the back yard that US can just go shake whenever they need some cash. The question is whether US can return to profitability before reaching that point or not.

Jim