US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/26- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Oh, in interest in completing your tirade against your brothers in the east you forgot to mention your safety record ace card that you westies love to throw in our face!

Kids will be kids. ALl wee need is 1 in 3 guy, 1 in 3!

You still have not explained how a win (not likely) in the MDA case is going to change anything for the US Airways pilots. Have you read the suit? They are asking for $175,000,000.00 from ALPA. We are not ALPA so we don't pay. ALPA does not have control of the Nicolau award so how will that change anything.

Please explain.

For the other two, I think the company opening statement pretty much killed the LOA snap back.

Number three loser is the ninth coming soon.

Better start looking for more excuses.

It was you that pointed out the safety not the west so who is the kid?

 

[nic4us]

Oh, in interest in completing your tirade against your brothers in the east you forgot to mention your safety record ace card that you westies love to throw in our face!

Kids will be kids. ALl wee need is 1 in 3 guy, 1 in 3!

Actually, I never considered nor cared to mention respective safety records, as I thought the discussion dealt with financial measures.

Further, you do not need 1 in 3. You can, and most likely will lose all 3 of the issues to which you refer, but that will not stop my "brothers in the east" from their continued attack on, and attempted theft of, my career.

1. 9th circuit. You lose, you get rid of usapa, and vote in another pretend union, or keep usapa and commit further DFRs that the West will continually have to sue the despotic association over, in order to tame their agenda.

2. Snap back. You lose, and you continue to force seperate ops in order to hoard your attrition. Which does not bother me so much, because most of it is junior to me, and in the long run I will still come and bump some theiving junior east brother out of my seat they stole in the short term.

3. MDA. Has nothing to do with the Nic, so win, lose or draw, does not change a thing. But since we are on the topic I have a question. Did MDA pilots have furlough letters from the industry leading USAir?

 

[HPDriver]

Allow me to respectfully disagree with this timeline.

Most of these geriatric pilots are full fledged "boy scouts," and would no more go on extended medical leave to burn up their sick banks than refuse the chance to "help out" when that POTA call comes.

They will retire at age 65 WITH their full sick bank, and send a personal thank you note to Doug Parker for the lump sum payment of $11(?) per hour of sick bank not used. There's nothing really wrong with that, but given the way this management treats them one must inevitably be reminded of W.C.Field's great line: "There's a sucker born every minute."

But their proud entry into retirement on the last day with full sick banks will certainly go a long way to covering the bar tabs in Tempe: "Thanks, guys, for your decades of loyal service...now, get lost (unless we can find more ways to screw you in retirement.)"

Wow Hate2Fly, you can't even get your own pilots to agree with you.

 

[HPDriver]

Oh, in interest in completing your tirade against your brothers in the east you forgot to mention your safety record ace card that you westies love to throw in our face!

Bringing up the fact that America West has never killed one of their passengers whereas the east has had a number of fatalities is pointless. It's well know in the industry and doesn't have to be used as a trump card on these boards.

I suggest this topic NEVER be brought up again.

 

[fatherabraham]

Further, you do not need 1 in 3. You can, and most likely will lose all 3 of the issues to which you refer, but that will not stop my "brothers in the east" from their continued attack on, and attempted theft of, my career.

Nic,
I see your delusion remains to date. No theft to date, only separate ops. If the 2 groups were to be split today then the East would be ecstatic. Even w/o this delusional theft threat of "your career" you go on and on about. However I suppose a different reaction from the likes of you. Only conjecture, but my guess is you would be quite upset. I surmise this from your tireless wanting of the combination of east/west. Are you able to honestly answer your feelings towards a permanent split w/o the same old arguments iv'e been reading for a couple years?
I will start by saying as individual from the East, i would be very happy.
Again, just YOUR feeling. Spare me the integrity,we made a deal,binding arb,company financials,ad nauseum comments
FA

 

[cleardirect]

Nic,
I see your delusion remains to date. No theft to date, only separate ops. If the 2 groups were to be split today then the East would be ecstatic. Even w/o this delusional theft threat of "your career" you go on and on about. However I suppose a different reaction from the likes of you. Only conjecture, but my guess is you would be quite upset. I surmise this from your tireless wanting of the combination of east/west. Are you able to honestly answer your feelings towards a permanent split w/o the same old arguments iv'e been reading for a couple years?
I will start by saying as individual from the East, i would be very happy.
Again, just YOUR feeling. Spare me the integrity,we made a deal,binding arb,company financials,ad nauseum comments
FA

You all may be surprised but I and many west pilots would be very happy to be unburdened by the weight of the east. To be relieved of the attitude and entitlement of the east pilots. Despite your rose colored vision of how great Us Air was and that everyone must want to be part of your little club nothing could be farther from the truth. The west did not want to get involved with your mess but we are. Yes. If Doug decided to spin off the east to anyone else and let you become someone else’s problem I would be very happy.

But that is not reality and I have to live in the real world. We are in this together. That means that we are going to have to finish this merger and move forward. Any amount of hoping or wishing for something else is not going to make it so.

Would you still be so eager for separate ops if you had gotten DOH? Say Doug does spin you off, do you believe that the east can survive on it’s own? That means another merger, think that you are going to get a better deal in the next one? What happens if you get the same or worse? Try, try again? The entire industry know s who and what you guys are, if there were another merger they would be ready and not allow you to play these games again. The next merger would be with a larger carrier where the east would be the minority, good luck with that.

It is time to stop wishing and start living with reality, this is what we have and things are going to start changing very soon.

 

[Hate2fly]

Wow Hate2Fly, you can't even get your own pilots to agree with you.

HPDriver,

I should have been more clear in the original post. Most pilots will never make age 65 in the cockpit. As we age we will have pilots dying on overnights in hotel rooms as well as on the flight deck in flight. It is just a fact of life as we age. LTD's in the east are on the rise big time! Just had a very good friend 55 years old diagnosed with bone cancer and he was an absolute stud marine. Most pilots don't want to talk about this topic but it is going to happen more often with the age 65 retirement....

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

Yo Mythbuster- you really don't have a handle on any of this, and you make it clear every time you try and "educate" us. You made the case as to why we smoked ALPA off the property. Not the blame game, It was right in your little edification. Bill Pollock handing the letters to Jerry Glass. Have you figured it out? Apparently not. Our own MEC chair was passing documents to the company negotiator! Blame Game? Wow, you really have no idea as to what was going on, and why we made ALPA a SMOKING HOLE. They sold us out.Why don't you worry about what little you have a grasp on, and let us deal with what we know happened. You have no idea, and it is clear every time you try to butt in.

You point to Bill Pollock, your own MEC. Those were LOCAL leaders elected by AAA pilots. What did national ALPA have to do with your local problems?

How about you remove the local problem instead of the national organization.

Is that what is going to happen when the world comes crashing down on the east very soon. Blame USAPA and try to start yet another union instead of removing the leadership problem?

No I have a very good understanding of what happened.

It is USAPA and the east pilots that are going to be the next smoking hole.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Most certainly, but that's clearly the very lowest concern (if it even exists at all as ANY "concern") at Rio Salado. We need look no further down that path than the CEO's comments regarding "Happy pilots equals no cost advantage." These people simply don't care, nor do they understand even the tiniest tenets of "leadership" at any level.

This man speaks the truth. They don't care about ANY of us PERIOD

 

[nic4us]

Further, you do not need 1 in 3. You can, and most likely will lose all 3 of the issues to which you refer, but that will not stop my "brothers in the east" from their continued attack on, and attempted theft of, my career.

Nic,
I see your delusion remains to date. No theft to date, only separate ops. If the 2 groups were to be split today then the East would be ecstatic. Even w/o this delusional threat of "your career" you go on and on about. However I suppose a different reaction from the likes of you. Only conjecture, but my guess is you would be quite upset. I surmise this from your tireless wanting of the combination of east/west. Are you able to honestly answer your feelings towards a permanent split w/o the same old arguments iv'e been reading for a couple years?
I will start by saying as individual from the East, i would be very happy.
Again, just YOUR feeling. Spare me the integrity,we made a deal,binding arb,company financials,ad nauseum comments
FA

If I had a majic wand and could rewind the clock, I would gladly see that this merger never happened. I am certain you would love to see a split on your terms, as I would love to see a split on my terms. Would you like to see a split where we both return to our repsepctive financial conditions just prior to the merger? AWA making money with a ATSB loan to service but cash on hand, and US about to go chapter 7. Sure, I will take that deal.

What you want is to split after the cost of the merger has been burdened by the West. You fail to recognize, that the leg up that was afforded the east operation came at the expense of West jobs. Sure, repay those costs and I would gladly say farewell. Otherwise, we can have an understanding about or marriage, we both can pay those costs, for me that means no more AWA rapid advancement higher seniority and better pay/ work rules, and for you that means combined ops and the implementation of the Nic.

 

[Metroyet]

Only conjecture, but my guess is you would be quite upset. I surmise this from your tireless wanting of the combination of east/west. Are you able to honestly answer your feelings towards a permanent split w/o the same old arguments iv'e been reading for a couple years?
I will start by saying as individual from the East, i would be very happy.
Again, just YOUR feeling. Spare me the integrity,we made a deal,binding arb,company financials,ad nauseum comments
FA

I guarantee you, in the strongest terms possible, that if we were able to jettison the Dead Weight and rid ourselves of the Carcass of your "formerly glorious" airline, the West pilots would be dancing in the streets with more enthusiasm than the Mummers.

 

[fatherabraham]

You all may be surprised but I and many west pilots would be very happy to be unburdened by the weight of the east. To be relieved of the attitude and entitlement of the east pilots. Despite your rose colored vision of how great Us Air was and that everyone must want to be part of your little club nothing could be farther from the truth. The west did not want to get involved with your mess but we are. Yes. If Doug decided to spin off the east to anyone else and let you become someone else’s problem I would be very happy.

But that is not reality and I have to live in the real world. We are in this together. That means that we are going to have to finish this merger and move forward. Any amount of hoping or wishing for something else is not going to make it so.

Would you still be so eager for separate ops if you had gotten DOH? Say Doug does spin you off, do you believe that the east can survive on it’s own? That means another merger, think that you are going to get a better deal in the next one? What happens if you get the same or worse? Try, try again? The entire industry know s who and what you guys are, if there were another merger they would be ready and not allow you to play these games again. The next merger would be with a larger carrier where the east would be the minority, good luck with that.

It is time to stop wishing and start living with reality, this is what we have and things are going to start changing very soon.

Clear,
I long ago put you on ignore (and only peeked at this post as guessed it was a reply) and have not kept up with your thoughts. My question to nic4us was a hypothetical. Tons of rumors for years about splitting these 2 groups. That said, I will answer your qustions. Note i pleaded in post to spare me much of same words you felt needed to say again.
A-Separate ops would be perfect with me as I concluded that all west folk should NOT be harmed by senior east moving into your base and taking any position for any fence period!
A-A spin off assumes risk as any merger does. East was and is willing to deal with current survival scenario. I am not smart enuf to pretend i know the survival odds of a stand alone East. I will tell you that I would never expect a windfall merging with another group that I believed financially worse off.
A-Better deal......not sure how to answer. Do you mean like a kiss afterwards

FA

 

[snapthis]

Most certainly, but that's clearly the very lowest concern (if it even exists at all as ANY "concern") at Rio Salado. We need look no further down that path than the CEO's comments regarding "Happy pilots equals no cost advantage." These people simply don't care, nor do they understand even the tiniest tenets of "leadership" at any level.

I agree that they don't care for us, they care about the bottom line. There is no love fest between management and pilots at SW Airlines but are able to work together. Pilots get paid more and the company is able to report a profit.

They must be doing something right other than hedging fuel and flying bags for free.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Oh, in interest in completing your tirade against your brothers in the east you forgot to mention your safety record ace card that you westies love to throw in our face!

Kids will be kids. ALl wee need is 1 in 3 guy, 1 in 3!

Seems like you are the one that is throwing out the safety record, but you are throwing it in your own face.

 

[Black Swan]

I agree that they don't care for us, they care about the bottom line. There is no love fest between management and pilots at SW Airlines but are able to work together. Pilots get paid more and the company is able to report a profit.

They must be doing something right other than hedging fuel and flying bags for free.

For sure the fuel hedges carried them to black ink a year ago. They have the cash and brains to pull that one off. Next, they don't compensate themselves at the top to a level that is insulting to the remainder of the employee group.In fact for the results they return to their shareholders and employees, they are the best deal going. They don't make a division in pay, that creates resentment and fly it in the faces of their employees as a taunt. Next, they didn't go off on a tangent and fly more RJ's than mainline. In fact they realize a fundamental operating fact- fly what you choose yourself, do it smartly. If you can't fly it yourself with a 737, then don't bother with it.