US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[GuntherA320]

Very shortly after the ninth rules would be my guess. Judge Wake stayed the damages and the legal fees until the ninth ruled.

The only damages you will ever see is lawyer fees. Period. I know you think it's a slam dunk that you're going to get something more, but I would point to the TA 10 arbitration ruling. How much are you going to get for that? And guess what else....ALL USAPA members will pay for any damages that Judge Wake deems AOL should get. It won't be just east pilots paying the bill. On another note, Judge Wake can't force a vote on a contract. I wouldn't plan on having a contract for a minimum of another 2 years.....more than likely 4 or 5 if Nicolau is in it. Once the East retirements kick in you'll have a shot at passing a contract. Ask your buddy CJ.....he understands.

 

[cleardirect]

The only damages you will ever see is lawyer fees. Period. I know you think it's a slam dunk that you're going to get something more, but I would point to the TA 10 arbitration ruling. How much are you going to get for that? And guess what else....ALL USAPA members will pay for any damages that Judge Wake deems AOL should get. It won't be just east pilots paying the bill. On another note, Judge Wake can't force a vote on a contract. I wouldn't plan on having a contract for a minimum of another 2 years.....more than likely 4 or 5 if Nicolau is in it. Once the East retirements kick in you'll have a shot at passing a contract. Ask your buddy CJ.....he understands.

WOW! That is quite a response to a question about timing. I did not say anything about the outcome just when it might happen.

A little overly sensitive I would say.

 

[Barrister]

WOW! That is quite a response to a question about timing. I did not say anything about the outcome just when it might happen.

A little overly sensitive I would say.

Why you .........every time I call it a game you call it a business and every time I call it a business you call it a game...............

John Matusak to Charles Durning in North Dallas Forty.

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[Freighterguynow]

The chances of splitting off AWA, virtually ZERO.

He equated it to trying to split off Piedmont now. We are a fully integrated company except for two separate contracts.

It was a pretty clear answer.

He also said a merger would solve the seniority dispute since the process will start over.

 

[767jetz]

He also said a merger would solve the seniority dispute since the process will start over.

Not exactly. A new process would certainly start, with the starting point being Nic. It wouldn't be a do-over for Nic. That process would end in a joint contract that would seal the Nic and the new combined seniority list in stone and in effect would solve the seniority dispute.

Start over doesn't = do-over.

 

[boeingplt]

Not exactly. A new process would certainly start, with the starting point being Nic. It wouldn't be a do-over for Nic. That process would end in a joint contract that would seal the Nic and the new combined seniority list in stone and in effect would solve the seniority dispute.

Start over doesn't = do-over.

Nice try but Parker recognizes the issue as it is, having stated in the press that a merger with another airline at this point would be integrating three lists. He says this because you, by definition, are integrating the System Seniority Lists. No list makes that definition until it is defined in Section 2 of a ratified contract. right now US Airways has two System Seniority Lists neither of which is Nic.

 

[luvthe9]

Not exactly. A new process would certainly start, with the starting point being Nic. It wouldn't be a do-over for Nic. That process would end in a joint contract that would seal the Nic and the new combined seniority list in stone and in effect would solve the seniority dispute.

Start over doesn't = do-over.

You cannot say this with absolute certainty.

 

[necigrad]

I wouldn't plan on having a contract for a minimum of another 2 years.....more than likely 4 or 5 if Nicolau is in it. Once the East retirements kick in you'll have a shot at passing a contract.

Ah yes. I came here to see if your contract is close to being resolved. Since it isn't I'll go back to my happy Fleet Service world where we're respectful and mature with each other. Well, MOSTLY respectful and mature.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

He also said a merger would solve the seniority dispute since the process will start over.

Well if this is true why did the brain trust kill the chance to get a do over? Didn't want the pay increase or the chance of finding out a do over is just a pipe dream.

Kirby give merger advice....that's rich!!

 

[767jetz]

Nice try but Parker recognizes the issue as it is, having stated in the press that a merger with another airline at this point would be integrating three lists. He says this because you, by definition, are integrating the System Seniority Lists. No list makes that definition until it is defined in Section 2 of a ratified contract. right now US Airways has two System Seniority Lists neither of which is Nic.

Show me one pilot group (of an airline worth merging with for US) who would not insist you resolve your list first, THEN start a new integration. It is exactly what was discussed by UA pilots among ourselves and with management, and the primary reason there is NO WAY management would have gotten our cooperation. No matter what anyone thinks, outside of a bankruptcy with a gun to everyone's head, a merger today will never be successful without the pilots on board.

Take a look at TWA, with BK and a written agreement by the TWA pilots to be stapled by AA being a prerequisite to any deal. Now that you (the east) have shown your hand there isn't a pilot group, or a sane management team that wouldn't insist on resolving your dispute first. Your only hope is if US becomes the acquiring airline of another in BK and can dictate terms. Good luck with that.

Once the 9th rules one way or the other, IMO the game is over.

 

[john john]

I'll go back to my happy Fleet Service world where we're respectful and mature with each other. Well, MOSTLY respectful and mature.

AND GO BY DOH

 

[Black Swan]

Show me one pilot group (of an airline worth merging with for US) who would not insist you resolve your list first, THEN start a new integration. It is exactly what was discussed by UA pilots among ourselves and with management, and the primary reason there is NO WAY management would have gotten our cooperation. No matter what anyone thinks, outside of a bankruptcy with a gun to everyone's head, a merger today will never be successful without the pilots on board.

Take a look at TWA, with BK and a written agreement by the TWA pilots to be stapled by AA being a prerequisite to any deal. Now that you (the east) have shown your hand there isn't a pilot group, or a sane management team that wouldn't insist on resolving your dispute first. Your only hope is if US becomes the acquiring airline of another in BK and can dictate terms. Good luck with that.

Once the 9th rules one way or the other, IMO the game is over.

No other airline is going to get involved with this mess. I really don't see how the Ninth decision, either way, really solves this issue either. The only way out is for management to come up with a screaming good deal for everyone, and that seems extremely remote. It would have to be such a rich deal that nobody would really care what seat or equipment they were on, owing to the cash involved. Then people would be inclined to pick the seat, equipment and base that gave them the best quality of life foremost.

 

[Barrister]

No other airline is going to get involved with this mess. I really don't see how the Ninth decision, either way, really solves this issue either. The only way out is for management to come up with a screaming good deal for everyone, and that seems extremely remote. It would have to be such a rich deal that nobody would really care what seat or equipment they were on, owing to the cash involved. Then people would be inclined to pick the seat, equipment and base that gave them the best quality of life foremost.

True, right up until the point where the massive cutbacks in PHX begin.
If you currently work here at U you have an 80% chance that a base has
been closed on you!!!!!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[necigrad]

AND GO BY DOH

We go by DOH because the IAM and TWU (and thus because of our membership in said organizations we did as well) agreed to it per Allegheny Mohawk. You folks agreed to binding arbitration by being members of ALPA. There were seniority decisions that many didn't agree with, such as non Fleet Service being integrated with DOH. Because that is what was agreed to we stick by it. We don't have to like it; I lost many positions locally on the seniority list because of it. I'm man enough (and mature enough) to accept the decisions made on my behalf as agreed. Are you?

 

[Ames]

You cannot say this with absolute certainty.

No, but Judge Wake can.