US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[oldiebutgoody]

...This would be a good time to be generous till it hurts. Lets apply salve - not salt.

KV

How about salty salve?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I think we should tweak our C&BLs. I would like to see our BPR, with PHX input in the form of polling, change the conditions and restrictions in order to address the most serious west concerns.

We have an opportunity here to finally end this conflict.

This would be a good time to be generous till it hurts. Lets apply salve - not salt.

KV

I would normally agree, but after the #$%^ in the mail , rocks, tieing up the safety lines, etc , salve is not going after attorney fees they owe USAPA for this obvious waste of everyones time! MM!

 

[Piedmont1984]

I would normally agree, but after the #$%^ in the mail , rocks, tieing up the safety lines, etc , salve is not going after attorney fees they owe USAPA for this obvious waste of everyones time! MM!

MM

I am referring specifically to the language of Section 22. The current language was made without west input. We now have close to 1000 MIGS based in PHX.

If we give them the voice they deserve, tweak the C&Rs with their input, we can very possibly end all this.

Do you really wish to move forward or not? Is there anything you would be willing to forgive and forget in order to achieve the much larger goal?

In fact - in the spirit of reconciliation - I would drop the RICO, entirely and without conditions.

We are at a fork in the road - not an exit ramp.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

MM

I am referring specifically to the language of Section 22. The current language was made without west input. We now have close to 1000 MIGS based in PHX.

If we give them the voice they deserve, tweak the C&Rs with their input, we can very possibly end all this.

Do you really wish to move forward or not? Is there anything you would be willing to forgive and forget in order to achieve the much larger goal?

Their MIGS why? They choose to be! I am all about forward, Their leadership chooses the COURT system, wish it was different but it is that obvious! MM! The voice they DESERVE interesting choice of words! Wish it was different!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

MM

I am referring specifically to the language of Section 22. The current language was made without west input. We now have close to 1000 MIGS based in PHX.

If we give them the voice they deserve, tweak the C&Rs with their input, we can very possibly end all this.

Do you really wish to move forward or not? Is there anything you would be willing to forgive and forget in order to achieve the much larger goal?

In fact - in the spirit of reconciliation - I would drop the RICO, entirely and without conditions.

We are at a fork in the road - not an exit ramp.

They have ALWAYS been welcome to participate in what few negotiations have taken place. They chose to be uncooperative. No one has precluded their presence. In fact, I've seen more than a couple outreaches to the west guys for their opinions and guidance in this matter. Nothing but 100% NIC would do. In fact, that's probably still their mantra.

Besides, the language already settled upon is actually fair. Nobody tried to screw anybody during its construction. Just opening it up adds months to this already drawn-out process.

There's a fork here alright. Don't hand it to anyone that's gonna poke it in your eye!

 

[Black Swan]

I'm still baffled by supposedly rational people who now proudly like to shout "NIC IS DEAD". The validity of the Nicolau award was not on trial, USAPA's behavior was. The 9th Circuit did not greenlight the evisceration of arbitration as a means of settling disputes, it merely said it couldn't see the damage done in proposing one seniority integration method over another. Now, when they actually breach their responsibility to present the Nicolau award by including it in any CBA offered for ratification, then the court will step in with an injunction prohibiting them implementing it, even if it is voted in by a majority.

The courts will not allow USAPA to be the beginning of the end of arbitrations. But delay is the prize here and I wouldn't be surprised to see USAPA under intense legal scrutiny of their actions and their accountability. The frat party that has been USAPA the past 2 years is probably going to be alot different going forward.

You missed the entire trial apparently. What was really on trial was Leonides, Addington grp. and especially Wake. Not USAPA. The trial was all about how a judge was persuaded by a misguided group, represented by lawyers who had no understanding of the RLA, and bargaining agents. You just got swept up in a trial much like what went on during Jim Crow times. A local law blip that had no merit or basis, yet got carried into legal history. Everybody outside of the circle got it right away. Especially Baptiste and Wilder. Just like poll taxes and literacy tests made legal in the south in earlier times. Sure sounded nice if you liked denying the Constitution and legal process. Put it in the light of constitutionality and it blows away in the wind. Now the second part of the process begins. The clear fact ALPA is no longer the bargaining agent for this pilot group. New bargaining agent. To hold this new agency to the Nicloau is to back the bargaining decision of ALPA merger policy to the new. You cannot do it. And if you try? Then you better be prepared for another lesson into RLA and seniority issues within an agency shop. Negotiated seniority. USAPA is not bound by any agreement with the prior representative body. To try and hold it accountable to an ALPA process that was never implemented is going to get you right back into legal problems. It was NEVER USAPA on trial. It was Leonides and Wake. The Desert Judge took you as far as he could. Just like those local judges in the south who let the locals make Jim Crow law. Take it against the Constitution and it all falls apart.

 

[luvthe9]

Since I am an East pilot that makes your statement correct.

I guess you need to change your screen name to "TRAITORJAKE".

 

[Black Swan]

MM

I am referring specifically to the language of Section 22. The current language was made without west input. We now have close to 1000 MIGS based in PHX.

If we give them the voice they deserve, tweak the C&Rs with their input, we can very possibly end all this.

Do you really wish to move forward or not? Is there anything you would be willing to forgive and forget in order to achieve the much larger goal?

In fact - in the spirit of reconciliation - I would drop the RICO, entirely and without conditions.

We are at a fork in the road - not an exit ramp.

Somebody on the West side needs to really look at how far this thing went off the tracks of fairness and get real. I would suggest it happen before the LOA 93 award comes out. If it comes out favorably for the East, the West is really going to have zero traction going forward. It will just be used against them in reverse by the company, who will not pay them the higher wage. I agree with you on the RICO. Drop it.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Deleted by moderator.


Moderator warning:
The next one who brings up this certain thing being sent in the mail gets time off.......no other warning.

 

[Black Swan]

The most telling fact with regard to the validity of the Nic to USAirways et. al. is the fact the award was hand delivered to Parker. It sits on his shelf. Ask yourself one question, and it all becomes very clear. Why would the CEO of USAirways, going forward especially into a potential merger, with all the supposed synergies of a combined workforce NOT take the Nic and run forward with it, combining the list? He can't. He recognizes more than 99% of the pilots here that he can't do it. He absolutely recognizes the fact he has a new agency bargaining agent, and it certainly isn't the one that hand delivered that document. I will give the guy that. He has listened to his lawyers, and they understand what is going on here. It goes way beyond a T/A. And he knows it. That was an ALPA relic that should be put into the display case in the CLT Trn.Center

 

[Piedmont1984]

Let me repeat. We have a unique opportunity to end all this counter productive infighting and finally move forward as a single pilot group. It will require that both sides move from their entrenched positions. Trench warfare is a poor, costly and inefficient tactic. USAPA needs to make the first move.

Reconciliation, where it has been employed elsewhere in the world for far more grievous crimes - and with much success - is a far better approach.

Drop the RICO. Tweak Section 22. Lets get a contract.

 

[Black Swan]

Let me repeat. We have a unique opportunity to end all this counter productive infighting and finally move forward as a single pilot group. It will require that both sides move from their entrenched positions. Trench warfare is a poor, costly and inefficient tactic. USAPA needs to make the first move.

Reconciliation, where it has been employed elsewhere in the world for far more grievous crimes - and with much success - is a far better approach.

Drop the RICO. Tweak Section 22. Lets get a contract.

For this to happen, and it would be good- would take the action of all sides to recognize any tenet of ALPA is not part of what moves forward. The Nic is the baggage left by ALPA on the doorstep, ticking away. If someone tries to bring it into the new house, it will not work.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Let me repeat. We have a unique opportunity to end all this counter productive infighting and finally move forward as a single pilot group. It will require that both sides move from their entrenched positions. Trench warfare is a poor, costly and inefficient tactic. USAPA needs to make the first move.

Reconciliation, where it has been employed elsewhere in the world for far more grievous crimes - and with much success - is a far better approach.

Drop the RICO. Tweak Section 22. Lets get a contract.

Nobody is advocating trench warfare. The section 22 that USAPA has already agreed upon is fair. Don't be like ALPA and give away the farm just because you feel good winning the opener. I'm all for fairness. That's all I have ever wanted. Now we can accomplish it. Put out a contract and let's have a vote. Without the NIC it may even pass the first time. With it, NO WAY.

As far as the RICO goes, I strongly disagree. Where would we, as a pilot group be, or the company for that matter, had the phone lines been jammed by stupidity on the day that 1549 went into the drink. The outcome would have been the same, but protection of the crew would have been seriously deficient. People need to be held accountable for their actions. Plus, actions of fools like these denigrade the entire profession. Just who would take a profession seriously that can get away with mailing droppings to one another. Sorry, but I think their actions were beyond heinous.

 

[Piedmont1984]

. If nothing else, these folks should be DENIED membership in USAPA on the grounds of poor professional conduct.

There you go, now that is a far more nuanced and targeted approach. Where culpability is clear and can be proven - deny membership. The RICO taints all of the west pilots from their point of view, they all take it personally.

It's counter productive.

 

[Freebird]

For this to happen, and it would be good- would take the action of all sides to recognize any tenet of ALPA is not part of what moves forward. The Nic is the baggage left by ALPA on the doorstep, ticking away. If someone tries to bring it into the new house, it will not work.

The USAPA Pipe dream lives on !!!!! Dudes. You're not going to get DOH. You continue to remain in the dark and chose not to inform yourself of reality. Your clueless leader F.O. Cleary wrongly stated in his update that Usapa is free to get any seniority they want. He could not be more wrong.

In the meantime, keep slapping each other on the back and drinking the Kool-aid. You really won nothing. Square 1. Nothing has changed, As soon as it does, you will be back defending yourself from a DFR. It doesn't matter what court or what judge. You will lose. Read to Nic. Read the Ruling.

One day closer to your retirement party. Enjoy the LOA 93. BTW. Jetblue E190 Captains still make more than East A320 Capts. But hey, whos counting?

USAPA is a failed attempt at stealing seniority.

NRBAGFY