US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/2- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[oldiebutgoody]

There you go, now that is a far more nuanced and targeted approach. Where culpability is clear and can be proven - deny membership. The RICO taints all of the west pilots from their point of view, they all take it personally.

It's counter productive.

Not the way I read it. It only targets those behind the actions, basically the AOL and AWAPPA leadership. It is NOT targeting the entire west side. If it were, it would be an incorrect approach, and I actually still think there may be a better way. I believe the RICO issue was used as a way to include all of the individuals without having to file separate lawsuits, and the fact that it appears to be an orchestrated effort to sabotage USAPA.

I guess one could point to many examples where doing the right thing is counter productive.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The USAPA Pipe dream lives on !!!!! Dudes. You're not going to get DOH. You continue to remain in the dark and chose not to inform yourself of reality. Your clueless leader F.O. Cleary wrongly stated in his update that Usapa is free to get any seniority they want. He could not be more wrong.

In the meantime, keep slapping each other on the back and drinking the Kool-aid. You really won nothing. Square 1. Nothing has changed, As soon as it does, you will be back defending yourself from a DFR. It doesn't matter what court or what judge. You will lose. Read to Nic. Read the Ruling.

One day closer to your retirement party. Enjoy the LOA 93. BTW. Jetblue E190 Captains still make more than East A320 Capts. But hey, whos counting?

USAPA is a failed attempt at stealing seniority. REALLY, FREE my man USAPA defended its right to tell you , NO DAMAGES, They are free to negotiate any section they want to , nothing is closed until an agreement is signed sealed and delivered !NO INJUNCTION ! And as for the counting things looks like YOU are! MM !

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The USAPA Pipe dream lives on !!!!! Dudes. You're not going to get DOH. You continue to remain in the dark and chose not to inform yourself of reality. Your clueless leader F.O. Cleary wrongly stated in his update that Usapa is free to get any seniority they want. He could not be more wrong.

In the meantime, keep slapping each other on the back and drinking the Kool-aid. You really won nothing. Square 1. Nothing has changed, As soon as it does, you will be back defending yourself from a DFR. It doesn't matter what court or what judge. You will lose. Read to Nic. Read the Ruling.

One day closer to your retirement party. Enjoy the LOA 93. BTW. Jetblue E190 Captains still make more than East A320 Capts. But hey, whos counting?

USAPA is a failed attempt at stealing seniority.

NRBAGFY

Man, those grapes are sour!

Nobody said you couldn't take your toys and leave.

 

[Phoenix]

Let me repeat. We have a unique opportunity to end all this counter productive infighting and finally move forward as a single pilot group. It will require that both sides move from their entrenched positions. Trench warfare is a poor, costly and inefficient tactic. USAPA needs to make the first move.

Reconciliation, where it has been employed elsewhere in the world for far more grievous crimes - and with much success - is a far better approach.

Drop the RICO. Tweak Section 22. Lets get a contract.

We have a unique opportunity because we are a single pilot group represented by a single union. The 9th settled any doubts about that and now every pilot has a responsibility to inform their negotiating committee of our desires, as they do battle with the company to get a CBA out for a vote.

Rather than call for reconciliation between two sides (that don't legally exist) I would suggest that each pilot needs to be reconciled to the reality that there is one representative body and each pilot needs to get on the horn and tell them what they want.

The only one that has power to craft what we will vote on is our union. All pilots should turn their loud mouths at the leadership and tell them what they want. There is no longer any us vs. them, and any pilot that wants to argue with his fellow pilot to the contrary should be cordially ignored. Neither do I expect our union will waste too much time re-explaining their authority and responsibility to craft the CBA.

The only us and them that exists is us the members and them the leaders.

Tell them what you want. Be loud. Be clear. Be rude. Be polite. I don't care. Just tell them.

 

[ableoneable]

Let me repeat. We have a unique opportunity to end all this counter productive infighting and finally move forward as a single pilot group. It will require that both sides move from their entrenched positions. Trench warfare is a poor, costly and inefficient tactic. USAPA needs to make the first move.

Reconciliation, where it has been employed elsewhere in the world for far more grievous crimes - and with much success - is a far better approach.

Drop the RICO. Tweak Section 22. Lets get a contract.

Piedmont,

I salute your attitude but think it is probably wishful thinking.

Several days ago the west volunteer was fired from the HIMS committee because he allegedly violated "long standing protocol." What this means exactly can not be spelled out because this long standing protocol is unwritten.

Apparently the grievance chair and the permanently hired outside consultant (a retired USAir pilot who is still on the FPL gravy train even after retirement) wanted the west volunteer off of the HIMS committee.

Part of this has to do with a philosophical difference between east and west when it comes to defending pilots.

The west has always sought to take action to insure that a pilot facing discipline kept his/her job while the east is more inclined to let the matter move to termination so that they can battle the company in arbitration.

Regardless, I don't see a contract in the near future.

The best hope for all is that the east to prevails on the LOA93 grievance.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Not the way I read it. It only targets those behind the actions, basically the AOL and AWAPPA leadership. It is NOT targeting the entire west side. If it were, it would be an incorrect approach, and I actually still think there may be a better way. I believe the RICO issue was used as a way to include all of the individuals without having to file separate lawsuits, and the fact that it appears to be an orchestrated effort to sabotage USAPA.

I guess one could point to many examples where doing the right thing is counter productive.

Oldie, not to mention USAPA only sought monetary damages, but those have had an opportunity to come clean and settle refuse to do so! Heck we would settle for a polygraph to proclaim their innocence as proof, good enough for the secret service and FBI Alot of us are with you the RICO needs to be pursued! MM!

 

[Piedmont1984]

NRBAGFY

Okay - I give up. I think I know what GFY stands for.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

NRBAGFY

Okay - I give up. I think I know what GFY stands for.

Maybe "Good For You? LOL

I'm thinking he means: " Now you can get a Ratified Bargaining Agreement. Good For You". Isn't that what he is saying? Anyway, that's the way I'm interpreting it, since this is good for BOTH sides and ALL USAPA represented pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

Not the way I read it. It only targets those behind the actions, basically the AOL and AWAPPA leadership. It is NOT targeting the entire west side. If it were, it would be an incorrect approach, and I actually still think there may be a better way. I believe the RICO issue was used as a way to include all of the individuals without having to file separate lawsuits, and the fact that it appears to be an orchestrated effort to sabotage USAPA.

I guess one could point to many examples where doing the right thing is counter productive.

Have you read the RICO law suit? You say that it targets those behind the actions.

Please point to the name of the person that allegedly mailed anything. Not targeted, not named.

Please point to the name of the person that called the SAFETY HOTLINE. The people named called the INFORMATION HOTLINE. Not named, not targeted.

Please point to the person that supposedly hung the doll in the cockpit. Not named, not targeted.

There are 18 individuals listed so it is not just against AWAPPA. AOL is not listed as a defendant.

If this is targeted who are the 100 John Does? By naming 100 John Does you effectively name the entire west pilot group because anyone could be added to this law suit.

Point to the people that did anything illegal and go after them. Why were no federal mail charges filed? There are only two federal charges, neither of them for the mail.

So since you say that if it were not targeted then it would be an incorrect approach. What are you going to do to correct the union mistake? It is not targeted it is intimidation.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Maybe "Good For You? LOL

ASK a teen I think they could probably help the process ! Minds that think alike? GFY GOOD FOR YOU?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Have you read the RICO law suit? You say that it targets those behind the actions.

Please point to the name of the person that allegedly mailed anything. Not targeted, not named.

Please point to the name of the person that called the SAFETY HOTLINE. The people named called the INFORMATION HOTLINE. Not named, not targeted.

Please point to the person that supposedly hung the doll in the cockpit. Not named, not targeted.

There are 18 individuals listed so it is not just against AWAPPA. AOL is not listed as a defendant.

If this is targeted who are the 100 John Does? By naming 100 John Does you effectively name the entire west pilot group because anyone could be added to this law suit.

Point to the people that did anything illegal and go after them. Why were no federal mail charges filed? There are only two federal charges, neither of them for the mail.

So since you say that if it were not targeted then it would be an incorrect approach. What are you going to do to correct the union mistake? It is not targeted it is intimidation.

I think that is what our legal counsel did! If you know who did maybe you could extend an olive branch and help YOUR union out! MM! Open to your help always!

 

[Phoenix]

Have you read the RICO law suit? You say that it targets those behind the actions.

Please point to the name of the person that allegedly mailed anything. Not targeted, not named.

Please point to the name of the person that called the SAFETY HOTLINE. The people named called the INFORMATION HOTLINE. Not named, not targeted.

Please point to the person that supposedly hung the doll in the cockpit. Not named, not targeted.

There are 18 individuals listed so it is not just against AWAPPA. AOL is not listed as a defendant.

If this is targeted who are the 100 John Does? By naming 100 John Does you effectively name the entire west pilot group because anyone could be added to this law suit.

Point to the people that did anything illegal and go after them. Why were no federal mail charges filed? There are only two federal charges, neither of them for the mail.

So since you say that if it were not targeted then it would be an incorrect approach. What are you going to do to correct the union mistake? It is not targeted it is intimidation.

I won't let the RICO be a distraction. I am not named as an accused, and I didn't do anything that is alleged so I don't sweat it or feel the need to vicariously take on any pain and suffering that others say they are feeling.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Have you read the RICO law suit? You say that it targets those behind the actions.

Please point to the name of the person that allegedly mailed anything. Not targeted, not named.

Please point to the name of the person that called the SAFETY HOTLINE. The people named called the INFORMATION HOTLINE. Not named, not targeted.

Please point to the person that supposedly hung the doll in the cockpit. Not named, not targeted.

There are 18 individuals listed so it is not just against AWAPPA. AOL is not listed as a defendant.

If this is targeted who are the 100 John Does? By naming 100 John Does you effectively name the entire west pilot group because anyone could be added to this law suit.

Point to the people that did anything illegal and go after them. Why were no federal mail charges filed? There are only two federal charges, neither of them for the mail.

So since you say that if it were not targeted then it would be an incorrect approach. What are you going to do to correct the union mistake? It is not targeted it is intimidation.

Prosecute the case. Then you can have specifics. The "John Does" is basically a place holder for individuals whose names come into the formula after the suit is filed. Since many of the AWAPPA folks were also AOL folks, they are, to most of us, one-in-the-same.

If folks didn't fear their past actions were illegal, this would be a nonissue. There, I rest my case.

 

[cleardirect]

I'm guessing some might feel differently if they were the ones to receive the feces in the mail, or really needed to get hold of someone on the Safety hotline but couldn't due to childish pranks. Personally, I think that maybe RICO isn't the correct way to go, but the individuals involved should be prosecuted at the very least. Sending HAZMAT in the mail is a federal offense. And, just plain nasty. I honestly can't believe how low this profession has been dragged by a few childish, unprofessional animals (let me say sorry the the animal kingdom. Associating you with this sort of thing is unfair, but I'm actually at a loss of words to describe this sort of thing). I gotta say I've NEVER read about Doctors, Lawyers or even Wall Street Bankers sending poop to one another in the mail (yet).

It's real easy to feel magnanimous after as huge a victory as this. Give it a day or two, then consider that the RICO trial really had NOTHING to do with the NIC, it was just some thugs getting together to try to sabotage the new union's efforts to get started. Criminal offenses, at that. If nothing else, these folks should be DENIED membership in USAPA on the grounds of poor professional conduct.

Have you read the RICO suit? Have you checked the list of names?

You do know that the two PHX are defendants in that RICO suit along with Eric Ferguson and a system board member. I tell you what you go ahead and bring it to the leadership that you want to deny the west their representation. See how that works out for you.

BTW could you point out what Eric Ferguson is accused of specifically? What heinous act does
Cleary think he performed? Take the time read through the charges and let us know what he did?

I also take offense at your use of the word thugs when referring to these individuals. There is no evidence and the charges have been dismissed by a federal judge in a NC court. So your continued use of that term is slanderous.

 

[Piedmont1984]

NRBAGFY

Not Redoing or No Redo Binding Arbitration Go Find Yourself :blink: