US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Res Judicata]

Big surge in Eastie postings. The desperation is thick enough to cut with a knife. TWA obviously struck a nerve. The bravado always comes after a major set back.

 

[Schultz]

What Naughler case? That case is dead. Over a year and NOTHING has happened. Beside no FACTS have been determined in that case yet because it has not even been scheduled for trial.

The only thing the Naughler case has is opinion. Seham, really what does he disagree with that DOH is important or not important depending on who is paying him and what position they want to take. I sure hope that are sending lots of money to Naughler I am sure the bills are unpaid.

Mamm, Its not dead and you know its not. Relax, it will all work out.

 

[Code Name V]

Big surge in Eastie postings. The desperation is thick enough to cut with a knife. TWA obviously struck a nerve. The bravado always comes after a major set back.

I think I'll agree with the relationship between desperation and east/west posts. If you really think that desperation is directly proportional to the number of posts, you best look at who has been the biggest 'contributors' to this board. Based on your analysis, Nic4us, cactus boy, callaway, clear, and a few others are ready to slit their wrists.

V

 

[Code Name V]

no acting here...and no dog in this fight...and I still want NOTHING to do with the west!!

No use trying to argue with the ignorant. Nic4us knows better than you what you need to believe and how you will vote when and if the time comes. You won't even have to ask.

V

 

[luvthe9]

Big surge in Eastie postings. The desperation is thick enough to cut with a knife. TWA obviously struck a nerve. The bravado always comes after a major set back.

TWA struck a nerve? Not a nerve, it set off a celebration! Nothing like seeing the almighty ALPA get SERVED!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Oh no! How is that possible? Could we really be wrong?

OK, Suge. You are brand new on the block. Congratulations. So a date of hire or Nicolau list is the exact same result (essentially) for you. The only exception is the "HUGE" upgrades when all the geezer's pass away in the east. Are you really willing to work for $60-$100 less an hour for the left seat (assuming that Delta will be negotiating their 3rd or 4th NEW contract when you reach that left seat)?? Meanwhile you will be earning $125 an hour, kissing :wub: Cleary's ring?

Sorry Boss, but that dog won't hunt. It make more sense to me that you are a Mid-Atlantic plant and perhaps even a furloughed AAA pilot hanging on tight to that "gold standard".

To know a Westie, is to love a Westie. BTW, I know a few newhires just in the door. They can't wait for the one year mark of seniority to let the Captain really know how they feel about the Nicolau & the attempted USAPA land grab.

Have a great evening.

Don't you even attend the crew news session or listen to your bro CallyGolf, DP can't afford those rates we will be out of business!

 

[cleardirect]

That's your opinion and you have the right to be wrong!

I believe that had Nic come in a little more towards the center, we wouldn't be here right now. We would have b... and moaned, but it would have been done. You disagree, we will never know.

Nicolau created the Nicolau award, right? The Nicolau award is the log jam, right? Hence, Nicolau created the log jam. The potential was there for it to be a long jam had it gone bad for the west with dual ratification. A friend of mine told me that one of you MEC members told him that they thought you would have to use the "veto" of dual ratification, so maybe you would not have supported it, but other west pilots would have. It's real easy to say what you wouldn't have done since you didn't have to, but I've had plenty of west pilots say they would rather stay separate than accept DOH, so I think they would have used the "veto' had nic come in that way.

Now, the chances of Nic coming up with an award that would have us all sitting around the camp fire singing his praises were slim, right? So no matter what, with dual ratification there was the potential for a log jam. What the east pilots decided to do was to take this here dynamite and throw it in the middle, thereby removing the log jam. Good method? We'll see how it works out by retirement, but I acknowledge that we all have some splinters in our head.

Like that better?

If you east guys had moved toward the middle during N/M/A the Nicolau would be more in the center from where you staked you marker. How about if we had decided that stapling the east pilot was our position and stayed there and you guys stuck with DOH would you consider that Nicolau "more toward the center"? I think not.

You guys were not going to accept anything execpt DOH or LOS. So you can say if only but it is not true we know it and you know it too.

The east created the log jam because your feelings got hurt that your careers sucked and you wanted Nicolau to fix your problem. You wanted ALPA to fix your problem. But the west pilots are not going to fix your poor career problem. That is all you. Retire on LOA 93 or live up to your word. Your choice. But accept that we are where we are because of east pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

I think ALPA was the side that agreed and they turned tail and ran! I personally never agreed to anything.

I never personally agreed to DOH with C&R that usapa wants to use. So according to you that is not binding on me? Is that your logic?

 

[cleardirect]

i wouldn't be so sure if i were you...i'm a newhire, and want nothing to do with the west!!

Suge let me ask you something.

Did you come from a regional airline to US Airways?
Did you take a pay cut to come here?
How long do you think on LOA 93 will it take to get back to your former pay rate?
How long do you think it will take you to upgrade at a stand alone US Airways?
Did you know about the merger that took place 6 years ago before you started as a new hire?
Do you really think that US Airways will remain separate ops forever?
Do you think that you are getting snap back and you will not have to live on the worst wages and work rules in the major airlines?
Do you think as a new hire that you should be senior to all west pilots?

 

[cleardirect]

Mamm, Its not dead and you know its not. Relax, it will all work out.

Exactly how would I know that case is not dead? A summary judgement was filed over a year ago and NOTHING has been done on it. No response from the court at all. There has been NO update that I have seen from the MDA guys explaining why no action means they are "winning" I have no facts or evidence that would let me know that case is not DEAD.

Can you explain why nothing has happened in the last year? Can you tell me when the case will even be scheduled for trial? Any information at all that says that case is not dead they just have not pulled the plug on it yet? All the bills paid and current with the lawyer?

 

[nic4us]

No use trying to argue with the ignorant. Nic4us knows better than you what you need to believe and how you will vote when and if the time comes. You won't even have to ask.

V

I suppose I am ignorant. Ignorant of what a newhire was thinking by taking employment at LCC, yet wanting "nothing to do with the West".

It is my understanding all pilot newhires complete the general ops subject groundschool in the PHX training center. Did Knight do that and did s/he still not want anything to do with the West? Lets say Knight gets an A320 f/o slot, will s/he forego that slot and fly the 190 if sim training is asigned in PHX.

Lets go back a step. Exactly where did Knight have the pre-employment interview? Was Knight given a medical or a drug test? Where did that take place? Photo taken for ID badge, where? Who decides on what markets Knight will fly his LCC airplane, and where are they located? It goes on and on and on.

A blanket statement like "nothing to do with the West", I can only assume s/he meant .....nothing to do with the West PILOTS. That is all fine and dandy, as long as Knight is not a commuter, does not non-rev travel, and is happy being a usapaian stooge.

My original post did not say anything about how to vote, or seperate ops or seniority integration. I inquired about what Knight was thinking about who s/he worked for, how s/he could avoid the West for the remainder of a career, and how that would benefit him/her.


So lets start all over with two direct questions.

1. Knight, where did you interview and attend GOS ground school?

2. How would you benefit from having "nothing to do with the West"?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

This rare clip was found of the AOL's dealing with the LOG JAM created by ALPA! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF9eMz2QdL0&feature=related

 

[Pi brat]

If you east guys had moved toward the middle during N/M/A the Nicolau would be more in the center from where you staked you marker. How about if we had decided that stapling the east pilot was our position and stayed there and you guys stuck with DOH would you consider that Nicolau "more toward the center"? I think not.

You guys were not going to accept anything execpt DOH or LOS. So you can say if only but it is not true we know it and you know it too.

The east created the log jam because your feelings got hurt that your careers sucked and you wanted Nicolau to fix your problem. You wanted ALPA to fix your problem. But the west pilots are not going to fix your poor career problem. That is all you. Retire on LOA 93 or live up to your word. Your choice. But accept that we are where we are because of east pilots.

Blah, blah, blah, blah...........blah blah. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Doesn't change anything. I guess we should have accepted your generous offer to staple 900+ ACTIVE pilots to the bottom of your list.

Bottom line: When the pilots couldn't agree, it was Nic's job to come up with a fair an equitable list. The majority of the east thought he failed and decided to take further action. We will never agree on that and at this point it really doesn't matter.

 

[cactusboy53]

Blah, blah, blah, blah...........blah blah. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Deosnt't change anything. I guess we should have accepted your generous offer to staple 900+ ACTIVE pilots to the bottom of your list.

Bottom line: When the pilots couldn't agree, it was Nic's job to come up with a fair an equitable list. The majority of the east thought he failed and decided to take further action. We will never agree on that and at this point it really doesn't matter.

900 ACTIVE pilots to the bottom of the list? Just exactly where were these "active" pilots employed in May 2005? To say they were offered recall rights AFTER the merger had taken place, would be more accurate. BTW, it wasn't our "offer". The Nicolau list is the product of an agreed upon process (all THREE parties). When you decide to arbitrate, you give up ALL control to the "judge". The majority of the East thought Nicolau failed because he REFUSED to accept YOUR DATE OF HIRE "proposal".

You are right about one thing: We will NEVER agree. It does however matter. It will eventually be adjudicated to a final conclusion.

With all your soapbox declarations, you have got to be one of the furloughed AAA pilots. Perhaps even one of the guys that flew at Mid Atlantic and said you really weren't even furloughed. What say you?

 

[cactusboy53]

Don't you even attend the crew news session or listen to your bro CallyGolf, DP can't afford those rates we will be out of business!

MUT;
You're gonna have to re-read posts before you respond in your Mut-ese. I inferred that those wages would be around that by the time the new hires reached the left seat on the East. Don't forget, Delta (NW) is NOW getting ready to negotiate a SECOND contract with management. Rumor has it that Cleary & Mowrey turned down a Delta wage/ AWA Contract 2004 during the last UAL merger attempt because they would have to accept the Nicolau award. That's essentially $120,000 of cash, 401K contributions, vacation & scheduling improvements PI$$ED AWAY.

USAPA = What can we wear to show that we're YELLOW?