US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

USAPA leadership won't put a contract with the Nicolau Award out for a vote because they're cowards.

They know a contract with a decent pay raise would pass.

Define decent! I guess you thought the offer to the F/a's was decent, you are correct they will not put a contract out with the NIC! Because unlike your spineless self, they won't just go to DOUG and say."pleez were the good children!" Your a moron!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

It's USAPA's job to get a decent contract from him even though he doesn't want to give it.

Too bad idiots like you don't understand that and have destroyed any leverage we might have had to get one.

We have destroyed leverage! Dan everytime I see this I think of you!



FOR SALE: French Army Rifle Never Fired. Dropped Once.

 

[prechilill]

Just thinking about the east Jihad since 2008- it has totally stalled and is running out of steam. I think these guys have given up hope on a LOA93 win as well as a quick contract with DOH as originally promised. Stupid people are easy to fool, a few on here have always understood where things are at (PS, trader and boeingboy) and where things can't go. Some jihadists are too dumb to understand reality though and that is a problem for us all. Take the TWA pilots' victory over their union and how a few east posters misinterpreted that decision, another example of how insular they are- these guys can't be helped.
Time is on our (west) side. Best wishes to all.

 

[Res Judicata]

If the pilots blink, and I mean all of us, we lose forever our ability to get a contract, ANY CONTRACT. You guys say this is or that is my opinion. Well, I will agree with the first half of this statement. The company now wants yours soul.

You can say want you want, but the pilots here are not going anywhere, east west alpa usapa, the pilots. No contract, and increasing lawsuits. If the pilots dont choose SOMETHING to show any ounce of unity then we truly get what we deserve and you will NEVER get a contract of ANY kind. The flight attendants have had enough and were in the same boat as them.

YOU HATE USAPA. OK, but letting the hate blind you to the future will lead us into intransigent armageddon. We may already be there and in that case forget everything.

I'm going to try and refrain from the boards from now on. If you want a contract, you'll have to address it in other ways and not on the forums.

GOOD LUCK to you all.

You don't get it. USAPA is enemy #1. You chose that. Not us. The thought of an improved contract never even enters my head...it's pointless. We aren't ever going to get one until the seniority issue is settled. Again, a path YOU chose, not us. It's USCABA that wants to devour the "soul" of the West pilots, not the company. You guys are a mix of insanity, malice, and arrogance. If the "Armageddon" you fear exterminates USAPA, I say bring it on. Most on the West can start over. No big deal. You were the one that promised an industry standard/DOH contract to your ignorant constituents. Your abject failure to deliver isn't our problem and your fear and desperation is palpable. IOW I don't care if you die on LOA 93.

Please, whatever you do, keep encouraging your East brethren to defy the company and keep your stupid, pathetic symbol of your illegal job action. An illegal job action so thinly veiled you were dumb enough to actually put it in print and hang it around your neck. You may as well fashioned those lanyards into a noose. Keep up the stellar advice maniac.

BTW LCC posted a quarterly profit of 256 million dollars. The company and share holders offer their heartfelt thanks to you East pilots and USAPA.

 

[Reed Richards]

BTW LCC posted a quarterly profit of 256 million dollars. The company and share holders offer their heartfelt thanks to you East pilots and USAPA.

"Results: Net income for US Airways Group, Inc. fell to $92 million (49 cents per share) vs. $279 million ($1.41 per share) a year earlier. This is a decline of 67% from the year earlier quarter"

or this one...."The Company reported a net profit excluding special items for the second quarter 2011 of $106 million, or $0.56 per diluted share. This compares to the second quarter 2010 net profit excluding special items of $265 million, or $1.34 per diluted share."

RR

 

[traderjake]

Define decent!

The Spirit or Jetblue contract.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPAWATCH.com (Chicken) Update: July 20, 2011

See Story

It's now game on between USAPA and US Airways. I believe US Airways COO Robert Isom cannot blink or the Company will forever lose posture. USAPA is telling its members to defy and disobey their superior's orders. That's insubordination. How will US Airways respond to USAPA President Mike Cleary's letter to Isom?


That's an easy one. The majority will follow the advice of their leaders and make it very difficult for the company to get compliance with the lanyard issue. They will show solidarity which is what the company is so frightened over. Lanyards mean nothing but the company knows that if you can show unity in small things; you will likely show unity when it really counts.

The union has not said to be insubordinate. Quite the opposite. Read what they said again. The losers that are determined to insure that we stay the lowest paid will comply and make excuses and jump when the company says jump. Solidarity is the key; always has been the only real strength any union has ever had. The company is placing it's bets on guys like you.

V

Solidarity?

Unity?

Nice words it is too bad that you east pilots have no idea what that means. From day one of usapa's unholy birth they and the east pilot have done nothing but divide this group. What is the mantra that east pilots spew everyday. Majority rules! When you leave out 1/3 of your group and attack another portion for disagreeing with you that is not unity.

usapa has never once ever tried to create unity or solidarity. RICO, Section 29, false allegations of ID theft, more law suits, removing west pilots from committees, removing west reps from meetings. Take a look down the terminal. How many US Airways pilots are wearing the cowardly yellow lanyards? All of them? 50%, 20%? This is the stand that Cleary wants to make leverage? Lanyards!

Good luck! usapa might be dangerous if they had any clue what the heck they were doing.

 

[traderjake]

Dan everytime I see this I think of you!

You think about me a lot.

I think you're taking the wrong sex hormones.

 

[767jetz]

They will show solidarity which is what the company is so frightened over. Lanyards mean nothing but the company knows that if you can show unity in small things; you will likely show unity when it really counts.

Excuse me, but it's neither unity nor solidarity when less than 2/3 of the pilot group wears them. Imagine a strike vote that had a 60-65% "yes" result. The company would laugh at you and bulldoze right over you. You are only proving their point for them. You have no unity. You'd be better off not saying a thing and letting them wonder if you had unity, than prove that you have none. What a bunch of amateurs.

Want proof? Ask any labor expert what kind of an affirmative strike vote you need to be successful. If it's not in the high 90's you are dead in the water. Even a 90% vote will put you dead in the water.

Some of your guys made fun of UA's "Hats Off" campaign not long ago. Granted it was nothing but symbolic. But we had almost 98% compliance. That show of solidarity bugged management so much, they issued a revision and removed the hat from the FOM as part of the required uniform. They knoew that sending out the uniform police to enforce the hat would be futile.

If US management pushes forward with their plan, your mis-led pilots will fall one by one. Once a few examples have been made, watch how fast guys stop wearing the lanyard in direct defiance of the direction of your union officers. And listen closely for the laughter coming from corporate headquarters. You'll be able to hear it well east of the Mississippi.

Good luck with your "safety campaign." (ie: distraction)

 

[cactusboy53]

If the pilots blink, and I mean all of us, we lose forever our ability to get a contract, ANY CONTRACT. You guys say this is or that is my opinion. Well, I will agree with the first half of this statement. The company now wants yours soul.

You can say want you want, but the pilots here are not going anywhere, east west alpa usapa, the pilots. No contract, and increasing lawsuits. If the pilots dont choose SOMETHING to show any ounce of unity then we truly get what we deserve and you will NEVER get a contract of ANY kind. The flight attendants have had enough and were in the same boat as them.

YOU HATE USAPA. OK, but letting the hate blind you to the future will lead us into intransigent armageddon. We may already be there and in that case forget everything.

I'm going to try and refrain from the boards from now on. If you want a contract, you'll have to address it in other ways and not on the forums.

GOOD LUCK to you all.

EOA;

While I generally agree with most of your statements, it is a FACT that AAA walked away from 27 CLOSED contract sections in JNC proceedings. It is a FACT that the USAPA NAC turned down the suggestion to accept those same 27 closed sections (they told the person making the suggestion that USAPA has a better way and wished to start fresh). It is a fact that we are 3 years and 4 months into contract negotiations on a PROMISED contract in SIX MONTHS. You are right, at this rate we will NEVER GET A CONTRACT.

Regarding the pilot's choosing something and demonstrating unity, that ship too has sailed. The only way to legally move to an uncontested contract is through the use of the Nicolau Award. The Nicolau Award is the only legal seniority list that is recognized by the company and the courts. There is no west group, entity, committee or person that has the right or authority to "negotiate away from the Nic". Even if there was.....how could that person or committee then believe the other party's word?

Luck has nothing to do with our situation. We were placed squarely where we are by one groups failure to accept a final and binding product of a agreed upon process. The courts will ultimately finish this, unless enough east pilots get fed up and decide to help mold and shape USAPA into a true independent pilot union. It will take several steps, but we can get there together.

www.reformusapa.com

There are three petitions there. Two have NOTHING to do with seniority, and all US Airways pilots that are MIG's should read, copy, sign & send in these IMMEDIATELY.

 

[cactusboy53]

Res, I think it's time for a refresher course for you and your friends about scabs, here is you refresher course. Please read about your hero Dan Cloud!!!!

A near 30 year old article of what a crappy low life place AWA was?? Oh look another piece of straw!!!!!! Hurry! Grasp at it!!!

Pretty slim.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just thinking about the east Jihad since 2008- it has totally stalled and is running out of steam. I think these guys have given up hope on a LOA93 win as well as a quick contract with DOH as originally promised. Stupid people are easy to fool, a few on here have always understood where things are at (PS, trader and boeingboy) and where things can't go. Some jihadists are too dumb to understand reality though and that is a problem for us all. Take the TWA pilots' victory over their union and how a few east posters misinterpreted that decision, another example of how insular they are- these guys can't be helped.
Time is on our (west) side. Best wishes to all.

Well thinkin is free, Well after a discussion with LEE he totally disagree's with your opinion about TWA, but hey your opinion and time! MM!

 

[cleardirect]

Excuse me, but it's neither unity nor solidarity when less than 2/3 of the pilot group wears them. Imagine a strike vote that had a 60-65% "yes" result. The company would laugh at you and bulldoze right over you. You are only proving their point for them. You have no unity. You'd be better off not saying a thing and letting them wonder if you had unity, than prove that you have none. What a bunch of amateurs.

Want proof? Ask any labor expert what kind of an affirmative strike vote you need to be successful. If it's not in the high 90's you are dead in the water. Even a 90% vote will put you dead in the water.

Some of your guys made fun of UA's "Hats Off" campaign not long ago. Granted it was nothing but symbolic. But we had almost 98% compliance. That show of solidarity bugged management so much, they issued a revision and removed the hat from the FOM as part of the required uniform. They knoew that sending out the uniform police to enforce the hat would be futile.

If US management pushes forward with their plan, your mis-led pilots will fall one by one. Once a few examples have been made, watch how fast guys stop wearing the lanyard in direct defiance of the direction of your union officers. And listen closely for the laughter coming from corporate headquarters. You'll be able to hear it well east of the Mississippi.

Good luck with your "safety campaign." (ie: distraction)

You are exactly correct. If Cleary came out and said on Aug 1 everyone take off the yellow lanyard and everyone did. That is unity. If Cleary says everyone wear the yellow lanyard and 100 pilots do. That is not unity. Those are targets.

Yes a 95-96-97% strike vote is what you have to have to make it effective. Today I think usapa would be lucky to get 60%. If there are smart they would not even try and take a strike vote. Without a strike vote the NMB will not release you.

So all you usapa believers. How is usapa going to get released for the strike that you all think you want if usapa has no unity or solidarity because you guys think that all it takes it a majority?

 

[cleardirect]

Well thinkin is free, Well after a discussion with LEE he totally disagree's with your opinion about TWA, but hey your opinion and time! MM!

Would that be the same Lee that was the witness for TWA? Would that be the same Lee that says DOH is the "gold standard" for us but he is arguing that SWA mechanics seniority is based on career expectation not the "gold standard"?

This would be Lee a lawyer that is paid to tell people what they want to hear? Just checking his credibility.

 

[cactusboy53]

Here's a link to the Delta Pilot's Contract Comparison (Since AA & AWA pilot groups still work under two separate contracts, they have separated our data for information purposes):

http://www.reformusapa.com/Delta_Pilots_Contract_Comparison_July_2011.pdf