US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

So for the next 5-10 years you and all the east pilots plan on doing exactly what you are doing to day?

It's my plan, just to piss you off!

 

[crazystnic]

So for the next 5-10 years you and all the east pilots plan on doing exactly what you are doing to day? After we get a contract you are all going to continue this same level of awareness writing up light bulbs and smudged placards?

If so where was all of this concern 6 months ago, a year ago? Why are you just now coming to the safety party? Where you unsafe before?

stop your BS.. If you don't want to be part of the group effort then just step aside....

don't pick on us for raising our concerns...

you would argue with us over anything right?

I'm wearing my lanyard after Aug o1... time will tell

 

[crazystnic]

American's Pilots Gain Altitude in Contract Negotiations Using a Non-Confrontational Approach

American's Pilots Gain Altitude in Contract Negotiations Using a Non-Confrontational Approach. APA Utilizes ALPA Resources for Negotiating Support.

See Story

totally different situation.. AMR is in a mess and they didn't go thru restructuring 1 and 2...

plus they tried the hard ball approach and it didnt' work...

the only way with team tempe..

is with a baseball bat..

 

[end_of_alpa]

EOA;

While I generally agree with most of your statements, it is a FACT that AAA walked away from 27 CLOSED contract sections in JNC proceedings. It is a FACT that the USAPA NAC turned down the suggestion to accept those same 27 closed sections (they told the person making the suggestion that USAPA has a better way and wished to start fresh). It is a fact that we are 3 years and 4 months into contract negotiations on a PROMISED contract in SIX MONTHS. You are right, at this rate we will NEVER GET A CONTRACT.

Regarding the pilot's choosing something and demonstrating unity, that ship too has sailed. The only way to legally move to an uncontested contract is through the use of the Nicolau Award. The Nicolau Award is the only legal seniority list that is recognized by the company and the courts. There is no west group, entity, committee or person that has the right or authority to "negotiate away from the Nic". Even if there was.....how could that person or committee then believe the other party's word?

Luck has nothing to do with our situation. We were placed squarely where we are by one groups failure to accept a final and binding product of a agreed upon process. The courts will ultimately finish this, unless enough east pilots get fed up and decide to help mold and shape USAPA into a true independent pilot union. It will take several steps, but we can get there together.

www.reformusapa.com

There are three petitions there. Two have NOTHING to do with seniority, and all US Airways pilots that are MIG's should read, copy, sign & send in these IMMEDIATELY.

We agree to disagree.

Good luck to you all.

 

[Pi brat]

We agree to disagree.

Good luck to you all.

I didn't see them agree to that. 😛

Entertainment value only from here on out. The smart ones among us got that a long time ago!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Lets call a spade a spade, from wiki

Work-to-rule is an industrial action in which employees do no more than the minimum required by the rules of their contract, and follow safety or other regulations to the letter in order to cause a slowdown rather than to serve their purpose. This is considered less disruptive than a strike or lockout; and just obeying the rules is less susceptible to disciplinary action. Notable examples have included nurses refusing to answer telephones and police officers refusing to issue citations. Refusal to work overtime, travel on duty or sign up to other tasks requiring employee assent are other manifestations of using work-to-rule as industrial action.

Sometimes the term "rule-book slowdown" is used in a slightly different sense than "work-to-rule": the former involves applying to the letter rules that are normally set aside or interpreted less literally to increase efficiency; the latter, refraining from activities which are customary but not required by rule or job description but the terms may be used synonymously.

Sometimes work-to-rule can be considered by employers as malicious compliance as they pursue legal action against workers.

---------------------------------------------------

I would say that "rule-book slowdown", is a better description of what may be taking place in some isolated instances. Of course, I have no personal knowledge of this. Nor do I condone or endorse such activity, unless, hypothetically speaking, it is necessary in the course of events when dealing with an unreasonable, instransigent or unscrupulous employer, in which case I make no specific accusations against present management, don't you know.

Quite frankly, and ironically, when employee/management relations are good, employees go out of their way to "keep things running". As a consequence, corners are sometimes cut and safety margins are compromised. Single engine taxi, as an example, is a procedure exclusively designed to conserve fuel. It does nothing to enhance - and in some instances actually detracts - from safety.

Most in the west know exactly what and why some in the east are doing what they are doing. Were it not for the seniority issue which divides us and it's considerable toll on unity - I think many more manifestations of support would exist, theoretically speaking.

I think the time has come for USAPA to stop spending money on lawyers, letters and lanyards - and start figuring out a way to unite this pilot group.

And it all begins with - compromise.

Just sayin.

 

[end_of_alpa]

American's Pilots Gain Altitude in Contract Negotiations Using a Non-Confrontational Approach

American's Pilots Gain Altitude in Contract Negotiations Using a Non-Confrontational Approach. APA Utilizes ALPA Resources for Negotiating Support.

See Story

American Airlines Orders 460 New Planes

“We understand that American’s fleet (and brand) are tired,” UBS analyst Kevin Crissey said in a note to clients, “but this announcement represents a ton of new capital being put into a failing business model.”

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/07/20/american-airlines-orders-460-new-planes/

See, I can quote too.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Lets call a spade a spade, from wiki

Work-to-rule is an industrial action in which employees do no more than the minimum required by the rules of their contract, and follow safety or other regulations to the letter in order to cause a slowdown rather than to serve their purpose. This is considered less disruptive than a strike or lockout; and just obeying the rules is less susceptible to disciplinary action. Notable examples have included nurses refusing to answer telephones and police officers refusing to issue citations. Refusal to work overtime, travel on duty or sign up to other tasks requiring employee assent are other manifestations of using work-to-rule as industrial action.

Sometimes the term "rule-book slowdown" is used in a slightly different sense than "work-to-rule": the former involves applying to the letter rules that are normally set aside or interpreted less literally to increase efficiency; the latter, refraining from activities which are customary but not required by rule or job description but the terms may be used synonymously.

Sometimes work-to-rule can be considered by employers as malicious compliance as they pursue legal action against workers.

---------------------------------------------------

I would say that "rule-book slowdown", is a better description of what may be taking place in some isolated instances. Of course, I have no personal knowledge of this. Nor do I condone or endorse such activity, unless, hypothetically speaking, it is necessary in the course of events when dealing with an unreasonable, instransigent or unscrupulous employer, in which case I make no specific accusations against present management, don't you know.

Quite frankly, and ironically, when employee/management relations are good, employees go out of their way to "keep things running". As a consequence, corners are sometimes cut and safety margins are compromised. Single engine taxi, as an example, is a procedure exclusively designed to conserve fuel. It does nothing to enhance - and in some instances actually detracts - from safety.

Most in the west know exactly what and why some in the east are doing what they are doing. Were it not for the seniority issue which divides us and it's considerable toll on unity - I think many more manifestations of support would exist, theoretically speaking.

I think the time has come for USAPA to stop spending money on lawyers, letters and lanyards - and start figuring out a way to unite this pilot group.

And it all begins with - compromise.

Just sayin.

Too late for that now. There is no longer the ability to compromise.

That ship has sailed. Safety first. It's the name of Doug Parkers intro in the US Airways inflight magazine. I agree with Doug.

Safety First....I'm on board!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Too late for that now. There is no longer the ability to compromise.

That ship has sailed. Safety first. It's the name of Doug Parkers intro in the US Airways inflight magazine. I agree with Doug.

Safety First....I'm on board!

Where there's a will.......

But we can talk about this again - maybe same time next year, or the year after. I'm pretty patient.

BTW, someone much smarter than I once said that compromise is the art of cutting a cake in such a way that everyone believes they have the biggest slice.

 

[luvn737s]

totally different situation.. AMR is in a mess and they didn't go thru restructuring 1 and 2...

plus they tried the hard ball approach and it didnt' work...

the only way with team tempe..

is with a baseball bat..

HA HA HA! If you only knew who you were dealing with!! Ask a west pilot about how Tempe handles disciplinary action, then don't hurt yourself ripping off your dorky yellow lanyard! Tempe is interviewing your replacements as we speak!!!

Wait, don't ask anyone. Just stay the course young man!

 

[luvn737s]

It's my plan, just to piss you off!

Liquor and your meds just don't mix!

 

[Pi brat]

HA HA HA! If you only knew who you were dealing with!! Ask a west pilot about how Tempe handles disciplinary action, then don't hurt yourself ripping off your dorky yellow lanyard! Tempe is interviewing your replacements as we speak!!!

Wait, don't ask anyone. Just stay the course young man!

Run and tell 'em little boy. Hurry up now, ya hear?

Your group is as proud of you as we are.

 

[Beancounter]

First off, using safety as a negotiating tool is really unprofessional and making it public is just plain stupid. Besides that, what is the point. Without a combined list we won't see a new contract. I'm confused. What is the point of trying to pressure the company for a new contract while at the same time delaying the seniority list. The one can't happen without the other.

 

[cynic]

First off, using safety as a negotiating tool is really unprofessional and making it public is just plain stupid. Besides that, what is the point. Without a combined list we won't see a new contract. I'm confused. What is the point of trying to pressure the company for a new contract while at the same time delaying the seniority list. The one can't happen without the other.

Several heads will explode as they try and find a way to spin that one. Or they'll just ignore it, because they can't explain it away.

 

[Res Judicata]

First off, using safety as a negotiating tool is really unprofessional and making it public is just plain stupid. Besides that, what is the point. Without a combined list we won't see a new contract. I'm confused. What is the point of trying to pressure the company for a new contract while at the same time delaying the seniority list. The one can't happen without the other.

That's the $64,000 dollar question. Even to a casual observer, it's an absurd situation. The East wanted this settled in court. That's what they're getting. It will take a decade more on LOA93 (Lee forgot to tell you that part). Agreed. What's the point of this illegal work action? Seriously, best case scenario...what is supposed to be accomplished? Pressuring the company to violate the law while in mediated negotiation? How Effin' stupid are these USAPA people?