US Pilots Labor Discussion

[crazystnic]

At the end of the day, it was a MERGER. It makes NO difference who bought whom if that was the case....you're still in the same mess, and neither side is in a position of strength from an acquisition perspective... it was a MERGER. So what sense does it make to argue about something which has no bearing on the situation.

From an outsider perspective (not that you care), it seems to me that NEITHER side is interested in settling this, and that one or both sides will be content to drive the place into the ground.....so enjoy saying "we showed them" from the unemployment line, cause that's where this thing is headed eventually......

If you would expend HALF the energy looking for a settlement and getting a good contract as you do FIGHTING with each other, this could have been done a long time ago. When will you realize it's NOT about East vs. West it is about YOU vs. TEMPE........

spot on... so how do you convince the west that they can negotiate this ? their argument is they can't ...... Not they they don't want to,,, 🙂 but that they can't.. nobody to talk to... which I don't buy is their real motivation.. Their real motivation is they have a lottery ticket they don't want to give up or change until it's taken from them.
as it will be,,, the NIC IMHO is dead..

 

[Res Judicata]

spot on... so how do you convince the west that they can negotiate this ? their argument is they can't ...... Not they they don't want to,,, 🙂 but that they can't.. nobody to talk to... which I don't buy is their real motivation.. Their real motivation is they have a lottery ticket they don't want to give up or change until it's taken from them.
as it will be,,, the NIC IMHO is dead..

Ok. So what is the name or names of the west pilots duely and legally authorized to entwine all west pilots in a legally binding, irreversible contract regarding seniority? Who EXACTLY is that person, and how did they derive their authority to enjoin ALL west pilots? Since you claim this is an easily answered question, you won't have any trouble doing so....Right?

 

[crazystnic]

You sound like the US Govt, congress, senate and all in the debt negotiations.
If this was the will there would be a way.

 

[No Land Green]

So what is the name or names of the west pilots duely and legally authorized to entwine all west pilots in a legally binding, irreversible contract regarding seniority?

MIGS that can vote when and if a TA is reached between the NAC and Management. Whatever Section 22 language is.

 

[Res Judicata]

MIGS that can vote when and if a TA is reached between the NAC and Management. Whatever Section 22 language is.

S22 is in Federal Court if you hadn't heard.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Should hear by the first week in August is not sooner.

That must be the reason USAPA is ratcheting up their diversion campaign concerning "safety". Got to have the east drones all foaming mad about something before some really bad news comes out. Too bad one of the drones got "on board" and got herself walked off the property for insubordination and for conduct unfit for command. Just another expendable casualty of USAPA's futile war against the west I suppose.

 

[No Land Green]

S22 is in Federal Court if you hadn't heard.

It is? I had no idea.

I do know that Section 22 is negotiable just as every other section of the CBA is. Even Judge Silver said that.

 

[cleardirect]

It is? I had no idea.

I do know that Section 22 is negotiable just as every other section of the CBA is. Even Judge Silver said that.

You would not mind pointing out where she said that would you? If she did, why did she take the company DJ instead of dismissing it?

Post the transcripts where she said.

"I do know that Section 22 is negotiable just as every other section of the CBA is."

 

[Pi brat]

Too bad one of the drones got "on board" and got herself walked off the property for insubordination and for conduct unfit for command.

Huh. I didn't know that you were there Calloway. Or is it that you got that information directly from Capt. Wells? Or did you attend her trial? I know a man that has so publicly worn his religion on his sleeve knows he is not without "sin", and would not unjustly cast a stone. Right?

 

[Pi brat]

Has the LOA 93 snapback, unfreeze, or whatever grievance been settled? If so, how.

Hey, welcome back! Mr. Delta, right? Be careful around here. These westies are PERFECT and love to throw stones. Since you guys had that little problem in BOS the other day. But maybe that crew wasn't real Delta?

 

[No Land Green]

You would not mind pointing out where she said that would you? If she did, why did she take the company DJ instead of dismissing it?

Post the transcripts where she said.

"I do know that Section 22 is negotiable just as every other section of the CBA is."

It's on page 18 and 19. NEGOTIATE!!!!! The Ninth said NEGOTIATE.

The ENTIRE CONTRACT is negotiable. If it were not we would not be in negotiations, would we?

 

[cleardirect]

It's on page 18 and 19. NEGOTIATE!!!!! The Ninth said NEGOTIATE.

The ENTIRE CONTRACT is negotiable. If it were not we would not be in negotiations, would we?

You need to go back read that in context. The judge did not make a declaratory statement she was asking questions. Yes she said negotiate but she was also talking about negotiating the other parts of the contract.

If she had said that the union could negotiate section 22 we would not still be in court. She would have dismissed it and told the company go negotiate the entire contract. She never said that the union has the right to ignore arbitration or that the union was free to negotiate seniority.

Questions not statements.

THE COURT: So in order to complete the negotiations,
19 what would you have to do? In other words, you're going to
20 complete those negotiations tomorrow. You're going to get a
21 collective bargaining agreement. So, then, what are you going
22 to have to do to end all of this, assuming I don't grant a
23 declaratory judgment?

24 MR. SIEGEL: First of all, on the non-seniority
25 issues, the parties are in negotiations supervised by the NMB.
1 They have to continue to negotiate regarding those issues.
2 Hopefully, on the non-seniority issues, they can resolve those.
3 There is a procedure under the Railway Labor Act if you don't
4 reach agreement, and it's not pretty, but it involves
5 releasing -- the NMB releasing parties to self-help and the
6 like. No one wants that.
7 So the negotiations have to be completed and each
8 side has to make proposals and counter proposals. That is on
9 the non-senority side.
10 On the seniority issue, the company has to tell the
11 union whether or not it will or will not amend the transition
12 agreement and acquiesce to a non-Nicolau seniority list. We
13 have to answer that question and we don't know -- Your Honor,
14 the only thought I want to emphasize is the reason we filed is
15 because we don't know whether that proposal is legal or not.
16 We're concerned because we are aware of a jury verdict that
17 found it to be illegal. We have a ripeness ruling from the
18 Ninth Circuit, and we have a demand from the union that we
19 accept it, the non-Nicolau list.

20 THE COURT: Let me ask you, if I grant the
21 declaratory judgment to decide this issue, do we start over?
22 That means do we have to have a jury trial? Essentially, we
23 don't have a judgment in this case that I can enforce? So we
24 have to start all over again, is that it?

This is the statement by the judge.

if I grant the declaratory judgment to decide this issue

She granted the DJ so now she has to DECIDE the issue. She has not decided yet so your comment

I do know that Section 22 is negotiable just as every other section of the CBA is. Even Judge Silver said that.

is wrong.

the company has to tell the union whether or not it will or will not amend the transition agreement and acquiesce to a non-Nicolau seniority list

Question. Why would the company have to amend the T/A if they thought they could legally accept usapa's proposal of DOH and ignore the arbitration? If judge Silver said they could negotiate seniority why does the company have to amend the T/A?

 

[No Land Green]

You need to go back read that in context. The judge did not make a declaratory statement she was asking questions. Yes she said negotiate but she was also talking about negotiating the other parts of the contract.

If she had said that the union could negotiate section 22 we would not still be in court. She would have dismissed it and told the company go negotiate the entire contract. She never said that the union has the right to ignore arbitration or that the union was free to negotiate seniority.

Questions not statements.




This is the statement by the judge.
She granted the DJ so now she has to DECIDE the issue. She has not decided yet so your comment is wrong.

She can't interfere with Negotiations. I sincerely doubt she will, just as the Ninth did. EVERY section of the CBA is negotiable. Believe what you want.

 

[cleardirect]

She can't interfere with Negotiations. I sincerely doubt she will, just as the Ninth did. EVERY section of the CBA is negotiable. Believe what you want.

Really! You have heard of the NMB process? What is the step right before releasing parties to self help?

Arbitration!

So if the two side can not agree they can go to arbitration to settle any outstanding issues. Those do not get negotiated they get arbitrated. Just like we arbitrated a single section of our contract. usapa is free to work on the other 29 sections. Just not section 22.

 

[Pi brat]

Really! You have heard of the NMB process? What is the step right before releasing parties to self help?

Arbitration!

So if the two side can not agree they can go to arbitration to settle any outstanding issues. Those do not get negotiated they get arbitrated. Just like we arbitrated a single section of our contract. usapa is free to work on the other 29 sections. Just not section 22.

Then why was the case not ripe? Why did SFO say that USAPA may not come up with a list that reaches the west's worst fears. How could that happen if you can't negotiate?