US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

Really! You have heard of the NMB process? What is the step right before releasing parties to self help?

Arbitration!

So if the two side can not agree they can go to arbitration to settle any outstanding issues. Those do not get negotiated they get arbitrated. Just like we arbitrated a single section of our contract. usapa is free to work on the other 29 sections. Just not section 22.

Good luck!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Really! You have heard of the NMB process? What is the step right before releasing parties to self help?

Arbitration!

So if the two side can not agree they can go to arbitration to settle any outstanding issues. Those do not get negotiated they get arbitrated. Just like we arbitrated a single section of our contract. usapa is free to work on the other 29 sections. Just not section 22.

NO, it is MEDIATION






Mediation and Arbitration

Unions and employers negotiate collective agreements which set out the terms and conditions of employment. Sometimes, the parties cannot reach an agreement. When this happens, unions may go on strike and employers may choose to lockout their employees.

Before a strike or lockout can proceed, the parties need to go through a mediation process. Mediation entails a neutral third party assisting the union and the employer to reach an agreement. The mediator does not decide an issue. Rather the mediator assists the parties to clarify their positions and reach a compromise. Mediators sometimes write recommendations. These recommendations are not binding and either party is free to accept or reject them.

Mediation is often confused with arbitration. Arbitration is a method of dispute resolution where a neutral third party hears from both sides and then decides an issue. An arbitrator’s decision is binding on the parties. There are two main types of arbitration. Interest arbitration is used to settle a collective agreement (instead of resorting to a strike and lockout). Rights arbitration is normally the last step in a resolving a grievance.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Huh. I didn't know that you were there Calloway. Or is it that you got that information directly from Capt. Wells? Or did you attend her trial? I know a man that has so publicly worn his religion on his sleeve knows he is not without "sin", and would not unjustly cast a stone. Right?

I wasn't there but I did read USAPA's USA Today ad and Isom's response to it. Beyond those public statements, who can say for sure what happened except those directly involved. Based on what we know, however, it does seem that this specific pilot was given some sort of disciplinary action for doing more than simply raising a question about the condition of the aircraft she was scheduled to fly. Given a choice between trusting USAPA, one of the most incompetent and despised unions, even by it's own constituents, which openly seeks to breach a contract to the harm of their own membership, or trusting one of the most accomplished and respected executives in the airline business today, the choice is easy: Isom is to be trusted and Cleary/USAPA is to be distrusted.

IMO none of this would even remotely be an issue except that USAPA put several shots across the bow of Management trying to use safety as a bargaining chip to get what the Company and the courts steadfastly refuse to give them. USAPA has always had a credibility problem and they only made matter worse by claiming the airline operations are unsafe and that Captain Paul Morell should be fired. Captain Morell isn't going anywhere would be my guess, but if the Company can catch one of the USAPA faithful engaging in an illegal job action, then that pilot should, in my opinion, be shown the street never to return. At best USAPA's safety campaign borders dangerously close to an illegal job action. At worst it is a violation of federal law under the RLA and the Company has full right to exercise its protections in the face of such illegal activity.

The Kasher decision should be released to the public soon and I suspect USAPA and the east will blow a major gasket when it does come out. The whole safety campaign is designed to help USAPA maintain a sense of control over a union that is on the verge of collapse - IMO anyway. back in January I predicted that 2011 would be a very bad year for USAPA based on the Silver and Kasher decisions. At the time I had no idea that USAPA would be pushing their own east pilots to sacrifice their careers in order to aide the USAPA safety smear campaign.

This isn't a soteriological issue and I hope Ms. Wells has accepted the truth in faith so as to secure eternal life. However, in this circumstance, there is no comparison between her alleged conduct and my spotless employment record. I have never been accused of insubordination and have never received anything other than superior comments on my performance evaluations. I believe everyone I have ever reported to knew that I regularly put my employer's interests above my own because I believe that is how it ought to be. On the few occasions I found myself working for someone who I didn't respect or trust, I made a quick departure so as to find someone I could trust and respect instead. By my way of thinking if you don't trust/respect your employer you should quit. Likewise, if you come to believe that your employer doesn't trust or respect you, you should also quit. I see no point in being miserable at your place of employment - either fix your own faulty attitude or move on to greener pastures.

 

[700UW]

Before the cooling off period is allowed the NMB will proffer binding arbitration to both the company and the union, but one or both usually turn it down.

 

[IADair]

Let's go round and round and round and round and round, that is USAPA, in the end the court will go with the binding arbitration order, that is if US AIRWAYS is still around, the east pilots drove them into bankruptcy twice, and looks like they are hell bent on trying to do it again, mergers were not done because of USAPA, ON May 31 USAPA pettioned the court to stop US AIRWAYS from seeking clarity from the courts for direction with contract negotiations. USAPA LOST, still on USAPA's website they never acknowledged they lost, let me repeat that, they never acknowledged they lost.

USAPA ,now ,again tries to drive customers away with bogus exagerated safety claims.

USAPA is just like casey anthony, you just cant believe anything they say, USAPA has no credibility.

I saw that add Friday I just had to come back here to respond, you clowns of USAPA just dont get it, you have no clue of how much damage you have caused.

 

[IADair]

I wasn't there but I did read USAPA's USA Today ad and Isom's response to it. Beyond those public statements, who can say for sure what happened except those directly involved. Based on what we know, however, it does seem that this specific pilot was given some sort of disciplinary action for doing more than simply raising a question about the condition of the aircraft she was scheduled to fly. Given a choice between trusting USAPA, one of the most incompetent and despised unions, even by it's own constituents, which openly seeks to breach a contract to the harm of their own membership, or trusting one of the most accomplished and respected executives in the airline business today, the choice is easy: Isom is to be trusted and Cleary/USAPA is to be distrusted.

IMO none of this would even remotely be an issue except that USAPA put several shots across the bow of Management trying to use safety as a bargaining chip to get what the Company and the courts steadfastly refuse to give them. USAPA has always had a credibility problem and they only made matter worse by claiming the airline operations are unsafe and that Captain Paul Morell should be fired. Captain Morell isn't going anywhere would be my guess, but if the Company can catch one of the USAPA faithful engaging in an illegal job action, then that pilot should, in my opinion, be shown the street never to return. At best USAPA's safety campaign borders dangerously close to an illegal job action. At worst it is a violation of federal law under the RLA and the Company has full right to exercise its protections in the face of such illegal activity.

The Kasher decision should be released to the public soon and I suspect USAPA and the east will blow a major gasket when it does come out. The whole safety campaign is designed to help USAPA maintain a sense of control over a union that is on the verge of collapse - IMO anyway. back in January I predicted that 2011 would be a very bad year for USAPA based on the Silver and Kasher decisions. At the time I had no idea that USAPA would be pushing their own east pilots to sacrifice their careers in order to aide the USAPA safety smear campaign.

This isn't a soteriological issue and I hope Ms. Wells has accepted the truth in faith so as to secure eternal life. However, in this circumstance, there is no comparison between her alleged conduct and my spotless employment record. I have never been accused of insubordination and have never received anything other than superior comments on my performance evaluations. I believe everyone I have ever reported to knew that I regularly put my employer's interests above my own because I believe that is how it ought to be. On the few occasions I found myself working for someone who I didn't respect or trust, I made a quick departure so as to find someone I could trust and respect instead. By my way of thinking if you don't trust/respect your employer you should quit. Likewise, if you come to believe that your employer doesn't trust or respect you, you should also quit. I see no point in being miserable at your place of employment - either fix your own faulty attitude or move on to greener pastures.

Well I saw the ad, and started using the google, (knowing that USAPA is not credible and discounting what they say and trying to find truth) well there is an unconfirmed report, (rumor) that the captain, well she lost her temper with the situation and that is why police were called in. I saw the rumor on another airline site, I think

 

[luvthe9]

Right after all these years i decide to come to this forum, please, i already stated my position, i am not going to post over and over again for weeks to come, just the general interest, however when i see usapa press releases i may comment, i have nothing to do with us air.

Example of my interests, the candidate obama bothes his release of birth documents, then he botched the release a second time, i started to research this topic because the new governor of hawaii in dec 2010 stated it was his number one priority to release the documents, then two weeks later he stated that it was no longer his priority, i found the whole thing to be odd, so instead of just believing the media, i did the research on my own just out of curioustiy. I have never heard of any state that provides computer generated birth certificates, (maybe that is the norm now?) I have a copy of my original I thought everyone did. Seems to me computer generated documents and not copies of originals are creating an environment for possible fraud, just my opinion. So the whole Obama birth certifcate situation just seems odd, so I was curious, finally after years the President finally released his origninal long form, hmm what do you know. Seemed odd to me that he just did not just release everything at the beginning. End of story but riddle solved. I was interested is all so i researched just like usapa.

So what does this have to do with my interest in usapa, well i flew out of philadelphia a few weeks ago, saw protest about contract for pilots, so i started to look up information out of curiosity, i believe usapa was not protesting in truth, because it appears that parker CANT negotiate because of liability due to NIC. sure enough usapa will not release press release stating they lost motion on june 1st aprox, even though they issued press release for motion on may 31. it was all over the google.

So once again I have no dog in this fight, i will post a few more times, and comment about the process along the way and that is about it. i am not going to be here day after day week after week, i am not that curious. my point is clear, and the courts position is clear, you will lose, but first many thousands might lose their jobs, the long term prosperity of the company is diminished because of your actions.

Again you guys just dont get it, conventional wisdom (true?) believes that merger is the way to go and because of usapa actions these deals were not done, and may not get done, this jeopardizes thousands of peoples jobs, but you guys dont see it, or dont care. You were bankrupt, almost chapter 7 except for white knights, you just dont see it, you agreed to arbitration than broke your word

Read this again by IADAIR. Pretty funny, just happened to fly out of PHL one day, and then went on a crusade with no dog in the fight......You guys make up some stupid characters, and they all have this strange mission of love for the west pilots. Jetz is the best one! 😀 😀 😀

 

[luvthe9]

Well I saw the ad, and started using the google, (knowing that USAPA is not credible and discounting what they say and trying to find truth) well there is an unconfirmed report, (rumor) that the captain, well she lost her temper with the situation and that is why police were called in. I saw the rumor on another airline site, I think

Tell us, when you "use the Google" does it make you happy?? Fodase, we know it is you, the clown part is the dead giveaway 😛

 

[luvthe9]

Let's go round and round and round and round and round, that is USAPA, in the end the court will go with the binding arbitration order, that is if US AIRWAYS is still around, the east pilots drove them into bankruptcy twice, and looks like they are hell bent on trying to do it again, mergers were not done because of USAPA, ON May 31 USAPA pettioned the court to stop US AIRWAYS from seeking clarity from the courts for direction with contract negotiations. USAPA LOST, still on USAPA's website they never acknowledged they lost, let me repeat that, they never acknowledged they lost.

USAPA ,now ,again tries to drive customers away with bogus exagerated safety claims.

USAPA is just like casey anthony, you just cant believe anything they say, USAPA has no credibility.

I saw that add Friday I just had to come back here to respond, you clowns of USAPA just dont get it, you have no clue of how much damage you have caused.

Fodase, you used it so much it came around and bit you! :blink: :blink:

 

[IADair]

Read this again by IADAIR. Pretty funny, just happened to fly out of PHL one day, and then went on a crusade with no dog in the fight......You guys make up some stupid characters, and they all have this strange mission of love for the west pilots. Jetz is the best one! 😀 😀 😀

You put the article in the paper to get attention, you got the attention I read it, you protested at PHL the day i was there, you protested to get attention, you got it, dont know why that is so hard to uinderstand, I MEAN YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED, you guys are ignorant. What you did not want is for someone to actually research what you claim.

Please can you tell your leadership to post that you lost your May 31 petition to the court, you might gain a little bit of crediibility if you did. USAPA not credible, get a clue

 

[cleardirect]

NO, it is MEDIATION






Mediation and Arbitration

Unions and employers negotiate collective agreements which set out the terms and conditions of employment. Sometimes, the parties cannot reach an agreement. When this happens, unions may go on strike and employers may choose to lockout their employees.

Before a strike or lockout can proceed, the parties need to go through a mediation process. Mediation entails a neutral third party assisting the union and the employer to reach an agreement. The mediator does not decide an issue. Rather the mediator assists the parties to clarify their positions and reach a compromise. Mediators sometimes write recommendations. These recommendations are not binding and either party is free to accept or reject them.

Mediation is often confused with arbitration. Arbitration is a method of dispute resolution where a neutral third party hears from both sides and then decides an issue. An arbitrator’s decision is binding on the parties. There are two main types of arbitration. Interest arbitration is used to settle a collective agreement (instead of resorting to a strike and lockout). Rights arbitration is normally the last step in a resolving a grievance.

For pilots that tell anyone that will listen that you are the most experienced group in the world. For pilots that have supposedly been in the industry for 25-30 years you have a stunning lack of understanding of the process. I suggest that you educate yourself before posting further.

Negotiation/Mediation Process

· The negotiation process (see attached Chart) begins with the parties engaging in direct negotiations, without the presence of the Board and its mediators. The parties control the timing of direct negotiations, with some beginning well before the amendable date of their current contracts, and some beginning very near the amendable date. The Board has no control over the parties in direct negotiations. Although some parties reach final resolution in direct negotiations, the majority of parties file for mediation with the Board for help to resolve their many open issues.

· Once in mediation, just how long it will take to help the parties complete negotiations and produce a tentative contract agreement is greatly influenced by how many unresolved issues there are. The NMB has no authority to force agreement upon the parties or to dictate the terms of settlement. Strikes, lock-outs, and other forms of self help in these industries, however, may occur only after the procedures set forth by the Railway Labor Act (RLA) have been exhausted, including a determination by the NMB that further mediation would not facilitate agreement between the parties.

· The responsibility of the NMB to work with parties in both industries to avoid disruptions to essential transportation services puts the Board in a unique position to recognize and understand the impact of potential work stoppages in both industries, for all sections of the country.

· If an agreement is not reached in direct negotiations, the dispute, before either party can exercise self help, is required by law to be submitted to the Board for mediation as part of the contract negotiation process, unless conferences between the parties are terminated for more than 10 days without either party having requested mediation. Application for mediation with the NMB may be made by either party or the Board may invoke public-interest mediation, at which time a mediator is assigned and the Board's active involvement begins.

· If the parties do not reach agreement, even with Board mediation, they are offered arbitration, which either party may refuse. The refusal of either party triggers a 30-day "cooling off" period, at the end of which either party may engage in self help, unless delayed by the creation of a Presidential Emergency Board or an agreement is otherwise reached.

So arbitration can be used and the parties do not get to negotiate all of the sections of the contract. We have already agreed to and completed arbitration on section 22.

 

[IADair]

Fodase, you used it so much it came around and bit you! :blink: :blink:

funny I was trying to figure out what you were saying, "what is a fodase" I was thinking, until I looked at the post up above, you think I am someone else, well when this fodase person reads this he/she will probably piss their pants from laughing. (funny I was like what is a fodase, is this person calling me a a bad name) ah to funny. USAPA thinks they know everything when they could not be more wrong.

 

[luvthe9]

funny I was trying to figure out what you were saying, "what is a fodase" I was thinking, until I looked at the post up above, you think I am someone else, well when this fodase person reads this he/she will probably piss their pants from laughing. (funny I was like what is a fodase, is this person calling me a a bad name) ah to funny. USAPA thinks they know everything when they could not be more wrong.

Nice try FODASE! I mean IADAIR. Your story gets deeper and deeper.Laughing like a clown 😀

 

[luvthe9]

Nice try FODASE! I mean IADAIR. Your story gets deeper and deeper.Laughing like a clown 😀

 

[Pi brat]

I wasn't there but I did read USAPA's USA Today ad and Isom's response to it. Beyond those public statements, who can say for sure what happened except those directly involved. Based on what we know, however, it does seem that this specific pilot was given some sort of disciplinary action for doing more than simply raising a question about the condition of the aircraft she was scheduled to fly. Given a choice between trusting USAPA, one of the most incompetent and despised unions, even by it's own constituents, which openly seeks to breach a contract to the harm of their own membership, or trusting one of the most accomplished and respected executives in the airline business today, the choice is easy: Isom is to be trusted and Cleary/USAPA is to be distrusted.

IMO none of this would even remotely be an issue except that USAPA put several shots across the bow of Management trying to use safety as a bargaining chip to get what the Company and the courts steadfastly refuse to give them. USAPA has always had a credibility problem and they only made matter worse by claiming the airline operations are unsafe and that Captain Paul Morell should be fired. Captain Morell isn't going anywhere would be my guess, but if the Company can catch one of the USAPA faithful engaging in an illegal job action, then that pilot should, in my opinion, be shown the street never to return. At best USAPA's safety campaign borders dangerously close to an illegal job action. At worst it is a violation of federal law under the RLA and the Company has full right to exercise its protections in the face of such illegal activity.

The Kasher decision should be released to the public soon and I suspect USAPA and the east will blow a major gasket when it does come out. The whole safety campaign is designed to help USAPA maintain a sense of control over a union that is on the verge of collapse - IMO anyway. back in January I predicted that 2011 would be a very bad year for USAPA based on the Silver and Kasher decisions. At the time I had no idea that USAPA would be pushing their own east pilots to sacrifice their careers in order to aide the USAPA safety smear campaign.

This isn't a soteriological issue and I hope Ms. Wells has accepted the truth in faith so as to secure eternal life. However, in this circumstance, there is no comparison between her alleged conduct and my spotless employment record. I have never been accused of insubordination and have never received anything other than superior comments on my performance evaluations. I believe everyone I have ever reported to knew that I regularly put my employer's interests above my own because I believe that is how it ought to be. On the few occasions I found myself working for someone who I didn't respect or trust, I made a quick departure so as to find someone I could trust and respect instead. By my way of thinking if you don't trust/respect your employer you should quit. Likewise, if you come to believe that your employer doesn't trust or respect you, you should also quit. I see no point in being miserable at your place of employment - either fix your own faulty attitude or move on to greener pastures.

I just reread Mr. Isom's letters and I don't see where he addressed why Capt Wells was removed from the property by security. I have only heard conflicting accounts, with the favorable from USAPA or east posters and unfavorable from west posters.

So, you were not there. You actually do not know what happened, yet you chose to crucify Captain Wells anyway. How Roman.

" However, in this circumstance, there is no comparison between her alleged conduct and my spotless employment record."

That has to be one of the most arrogant things I have ever read on here. There is no comparison between the alleged misconduct of many west pilots that Nos spread around and my spotless career. So what? When does alleged get compared to actual.

I used to have a little respect for you. Oh well.........................