US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

GREAT CAUSE, just sent them 100 bucks! http://www.delta-pilots.org/

 

[goneflyin]

GREAT CAUSE, just sent them 100 bucks! http://www.delta-pilots.org/

Thanks for your support!

While DPA doesn't stand a snowball's chance in he11 of winning a representational election (after almost two years, they have 3000 cards from a pilot group of 12,200), they are keeping ALPA focused on the importance of scope.

 

[luvthe9]

I encourage the company to discharge any diisruptive employee and permanently replace them. USAPA will be proven to be a paper tiger.

Again.

Then he should start with the PHX angry woman and the raincoat dude from the crew news. :unsure:

 

[icehead]

Are you a pilot? Let me give you a little inside info. Pilots don't get escorted out of the airport by corporate security for writing up a maintenance item. USAPA has absolutely EVERYTHING to do with their latest USA today embarrassment. It's all about DOH and the glaring fact that they have been fully complete failures as a pilot union.

What "environment" do you live in? Mars?

How could USAPA be a complete failure. We have separate ops. You've got yours and we got ours. These forums provide a pretty good reason for separate ops, don't you think. I read the company version that was probably filtered through Legal - more of a smear than a detailed account of why Captain Wells was escorted off the airplane. Oh that's right they did not mention that did they. Nor they did not mention the airplane spent the night in PHL. Nothing like coloring the story for 32,000 employees. Odd that you can not reconcile the omissions and conflicting versions of this story. Perhaps it is you that have the date of hire fixation, misplaced of course but you brought it up. Your mind has already been made. By the way if Pilots did not get escorted off airplanes this topic would not exist. You would have more credibility if you would change your moniker to " Kangaroo Court".

 

[luvn737s]

This is the kind of heavy handed BS we are getting in the East. I will never offer to ride JS again to help the company. I will never answer the phone when the company callls me. I will never fly an airplane that has a maintence problem to help out. It's over.

breeze

No one has ever asked you to. You voluntarily do those things, just like you gave up your pension to keep the paycheck rolling in.

I think you need tp re-phrase your previous question:

If I were a captain who knew nothing abot how the APU and electrical system worked on my airplane and I ran the batteries down trying to crank it as if it was a 72 Pinto, and then had a nervous breakdown at the gate, I guess under those limited circumstances I would not take said aircraft. However those pre-conditions do not apply.

Little Miss Cant Be Wrong should enjoy her time off and consider a different profession which allows more psychological and emotional latitude. Perhaps consult Charlie Sheen.

 

[luvn737s]

How could USAPA be a complete failure. We have separate ops. You've got yours and we got ours.

OK, suspend Agency Shop and allow the west to withhold dues until there is a joint contract. Requiring unrelated adults to pay for children's temper tantrums is too much to ask.

 

[A320 Driver]

The whole case is bull #### and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between the company's version and USAPA's version. Either way, it is a slippery slope to go down and the union has to defend these cases otherwise more would follow. Being a west pilot without a union (or has a union that actually works against you) this case is extremely scary.

That is a good point prechilill. I try to take anything that comes from USAPA OR the company with a grain of salt. I try to find out more info from people I trust before I make a judgement. Yes, typically the truth lies somewhere neatly between two opposing opinions. But frankly, I think this is one of those situations that has far reaching implications for the entire pilot group.

Who's next???

Driver B)

 

[icehead]

OK, suspend Agency Shop and allow the west to withhold dues until there is a joint contract. Requiring unrelated adults to pay for children's temper tantrums is too much to ask.

Fair enough, your not happy with your CBA. I can sympathize, seriously. I felt the same about our former CBA. Agency shops inherently have there downsides.

 

[cactusboy53]

Fair enough, your not happy with your CBA. I can sympathize, seriously. I felt the same about our former CBA. Agency shops inherently have there downsides.

Some more than others: I'm pretty sure USAPA has set the record for attempted firings for failure to pay dues (I'll bet ALPA never had this many objectors). Further, I think they have set the record for the largest percentage of dues spent on litigation EVER.

It's not that I mind paying. It's that I mind what my dues ae being used for (or against).

I submit once again: Have USAPA voluntarily take 2/3 of the PHX dues and place them in trust. Then assess the east pilots to support the DOH litigation machine. That sounds fair.

 

[Res Judicata]

Who's next???

Driver B)

Who's next? Anybody dumb enough to help USAPA execute their pointless, hopeless "safety" campaign is next. Nobody out west is losing a minutes sleep worried over the company Gestapo. Whatever ever Ethnic cleansing you think is happening is a 100% fabrication of the USAPA deranged mind.

 

[icehead]

Some more than others: I'm pretty sure USAPA has set the record for attempted firings for failure to pay dues (I'll bet ALPA never had this many objectors). Further, I think they have set the record for the largest percentage of dues spent on litigation EVER.

It's not that I mind paying. It's that I mind what my dues ae being used for (or against).

I submit once again: Have USAPA voluntarily take 2/3 of the PHX dues and place them in trust. Then assess the east pilots to support the DOH litigation machine. That sounds fair.

This tangled web was born out of a seniority award that I believe is unworkable. Its been downhill ever since. You may be right about the litigation costs, I don't know. But it takes two too tango. I could go on, but bottom line were stuck and help is not on the way. Firing people for not paying dues is an agency shop downside. ALPA sent out pay or leave letters too, how many, don't know. All I can say is I understand you resentment. Its an unfortunate situation needless to say.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Who's next? Anybody dumb enough to help USAPA execute their pointless, hopeless "safety" campaign is next. Nobody out west is losing a minutes sleep worried over the company Gestapo. Whatever ever Ethnic cleansing you think is happening is a 100% fabrication of the USAPA deranged mind.

I don't think it's that simple. I could very easily see a west guy who assumes it is waking up one day and wondering what hit him, as he finds himself 'next.'

 

[nic4us]

Who are these corporate security goons?

This is the kind of heavy handed BS we are getting in the East. I will never offer to ride JS again to help the company. I will never answer the phone when the company callls me. I will never fly an airplane that has a maintence problem to help out. It's over.

breeze

I think we may have a breakthough.

Let me ask this. Did the prevailing attitude from the PHL CP's office change with the merger, or is this possibly a carryover from prior to the merger when in bankruptcy the operations were more critical? Also, are the CLT CPs operating in the same manner?

Here in PHX, the attitude from the CPs office is that they work for the pilots, not the other way around. They remind us when our medicals are due, help us with scheduling when we have a problem and need time off, send us a card on our birthday, and cover our back when we experience an operational issue. The only complaints I have ever heard from West pilots about the CPs office were from West pilots who were in the wrong. i.e. once the F/O was all upset because the CPs would not let him use sick time during family leave, he wanted to be payed but did not want to do it the contractual way and use his vacation, he wanted to save those for later in the year.

So, perhaps the problem is not Tempe but PHL, because the CPs do not know how to operate within the new company. This Yakoff Schmirnoff (whatever the guys name is) issue being one example.



Here is the other problem. You want my support..okay, fine you got it. Captain Wells could use some support..okay, fine, I have said nothing less than I support her decision to refuse to fly the airplane. But, this is a two way street, and exactly how can I give support in a seperate ops company? All I can do is give you a ride to work if you happen to commute from the West. The east has chosen to fail to represent and isolate the West in the usapa land grab, now you are stuck. As long as usapa forces seperate ops, anytime the east experiences a legitimate issue, all any West pilot is going to do is say is "well good luck with that, call us when you are ready for a Nic inclusive contract!"

 

[Res Judicata]

I don't think it's that simple. I could very easily see a west guy who assumes it is waking up one day and wondering what hit him, as he finds himself 'next.'

That is simply a combination of wishful thinking and paranoid delusion. A major airline simply does not operate the way USAPA is hoping to dupe the public into believing. It's disgraceful and epicaly selfish to attempt to undermine and deprive tens of thousands of co workers out of their livelihoods and benefits. All because the Eastholes demand all upgrades not just 2 out of 3.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

That is simply a combination of wishful thinking and paranoid delusion. A major airline simply does not operate the way USAPA is hoping to dupe the public into believing. It's disgraceful and epicaly selfish to attempt to undermine and deprive tens of thousands of co workers out of their livelihoods and benefits. All because the Eastholes demand all upgrades not just 2 out of 3.

My comment was a little more narrow in scope. All I was meaning to convey is that a west pilot should not feel as if he would not ever be a target simply because he is at odds with usapa. I don't think questionable behavior, for lack of a better term, is limited to usapa. Maybe it was me mistaking what you meant, but that's where I was coming from with that.