US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Some more than others: I'm pretty sure USAPA has set the record for attempted firings for failure to pay dues (I'll bet ALPA never had this many objectors). Further, I think they have set the record for the largest percentage of dues spent on litigation EVER.

This is another thing about usapa that cracks me up. usapa comes out and says we want to play for termination stakes.

They file the RICO suit going extremely strongly after 20 something West pilots careers and reputations.

They seek terminations through section 29.

They come out and publicly call for the termination of Morrell. I think Cleary has expresed that he wants Parker and Kirby replaced.


Now, the company says, okay, we can play the game at the stakes you wanted, and starts firing pilots for an illegal job action. (intentionally not doing distance learning and the "saftey" campaign) and the reneging malcontents blow a fuse.

Again, I think the company should fire every usapian on the communication committee and every BPR member who had a hand in the USA Today ad. Teach usapa a little lesson about who works for who, who does the hiring and firing, and why they are morons for seeking anybody's termination.

 

[usabusdriver]

So, you are the CPT flying a flight across the Atlantic...you get to the A/C and find that there is a problem not only with the APU, but also with the Hot Battery Bus. Will you fly this airplane for a 9 hr flight over the Atlantic, considering all the ETOPS restirctions, and at night? Then when you refuse, and try to talk to the next crew about the problem, you are escorted off the airport by corporate security.

Should you be fired?

One other crew refused the aircraft after Cpt Wells declined it...does that not tell you something, or is your screwed up opinion of USAPA that freakin biased?

Breeze,

I have a question. If corporate security got involved because the captain refused the flight. Who called them and informed them that the captain had refused the flight? Who instructed them to "escort" the crew away from the gate? Why wasn't the second crew "escorted" from the gate when they refused the flight?

Somewhere between the company story and the usa ad is the truth.

Thanks

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

This is another thing about usapa that cracks me up. usapa comes out and says we want to play for termination stakes.

They file the RICO suit going extremely strongly after 20 something West pilots careers and reputations.

They seek terminations through section 29.

They come out and publicly call for the termination of Morrell. I think Cleary has expresed that he wants Parker and Kirby replaced.


Now, the company says, okay, we can play the game at the stakes you wanted, and starts firing pilots for an illegal job action. (intentionally not doing distance learning and the "saftey" campaign) and the reneging malcontents blow a fuse.

Again, I think the company should fire every usapian on the communication committee and every BPR member who had a hand in the USA Today ad. Teach usapa a little lesson about who works for who, who does the hiring and firing, and why they are morons for seeking anybody's termination.

Well we think they should go after every section 29 EAST and WEST!

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA is Setting Up Pilots for Disciplinary Action, Again.

USAPA is Setting Up Pilots for Disciplinary Action. In a Call for Defiance of Corporate Policy, USAPA is Setting Up Pilots to Take The Fall, Again.

See Story

 

[luvthe9]

I think we may have a breakthough.

Let me ask this. Did the prevailing attitude from the PHL CP's office change with the merger, or is this possibly a carryover from prior to the merger when in bankruptcy the operations were more critical? Also, are the CLT CPs operating in the same manner?

Here in PHX, the attitude from the CPs office is that they work for the pilots, not the other way around. They remind us when our medicals are due, help us with scheduling when we have a problem and need time off, send us a card on our birthday, and cover our back when we experience an operational issue. The only complaints I have ever heard from West pilots about the CPs office were from West pilots who were in the wrong. i.e. once the F/O was all upset because the CPs would not let him use sick time during family leave, he wanted to be payed but did not want to do it the contractual way and use his vacation, he wanted to save those for later in the year.

All east CP's office have openly said they are all getting their "orders" from Tempe.

 

[usabusdriver]

From Ted Reed...


http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/11196015/1/us-airways-captain-escorted-from-airport.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA



On the aircraft's public address system, she explained the situation to passengers and reminded them to stay near the gate, Ray said. It is possible that a gate agent interpreted Wells' remarks or later conversations with passengers to be critical of the airline, leading to the sequence of events in which she was escorted from the airport.

From J. Ray himself....

 

[Pi brat]

That is simply a combination of wishful thinking and paranoid delusion. A major airline simply does not operate the way USAPA is hoping to dupe the public into believing. It's disgraceful and epicaly selfish to attempt to undermine and deprive tens of thousands of co workers out of their livelihoods and benefits. All because the Eastholes demand all upgrades not just 2 out of 3.

You would be wise to listen to lynyrdskynyrd. I know at least one westie has a bulls eye on his back for the same thing a few easties do.

It is nice to see that you are an equal opportunity ahole though.

 

[Pi brat]

If I were a captain who knew nothing abot how the APU and electrical system worked on my airplane and I ran the batteries down trying to crank it as if it was a 72 Pinto, and then had a nervous breakdown at the gate, I guess under those limited circumstances I would not take said aircraft. However those pre-conditions do not apply.

Do you have an A330 type rating? I don't, but believe nycbusdriver does and he says that's not what happened and not how it works. I guess you missed his post. Oh no, that's right, you know EVERYTHING. Go turn someone in, captain. Ha!

 

[Pi brat]

I submit once again: Have USAPA voluntarily take 2/3 of the PHX dues and place them in trust. Then assess the east pilots to support the DOH litigation machine. That sounds fair.

Keep submitting, maybe you will get somewhere.

I submit double west dues to pay for it. After all, the Addington suit started the legal free for all!

 

[Pi brat]

USAPA aside for a minute...
Isom says basically there was nothing wrong with the airplane. Why then, did they change the batteries and static inverter. WHY? The inference was that this whole thing was contrived by the union in the name of safety. I've read her account. I've talked to people that were there. She made a GOOD CALL. Even if she did say more than was necessary on the PA, is that worthy of an escort out of the secured area? When I make a PA, I ALWAYS tell the passengers what is going on. I tell them that safety is our primary concern and that we won't go until we are 100%. So you going to support me being escorted off the property for that? For keeping my passengers informed? For telling them that I won't take risks with their well being? This is NOT a USAPA thing or and EAST thing, this is a PILOT thing. ALL of us.

Now the company is running for cover. I hope she sues the living s### out of them and all this comes out in court. NO captain should have this happen under these circumstances. I hope this never happens to you...but it could, because YOU LET IT. Your blind hatred makes you think you are bulletproof. You are NOT. Better have another look before it is too late. Get the WHOLE story before you pass judgment.

Driver B)

Thanks driver. Balanced and well stated, as usual.

 

[Pi brat]

Res Judicata,

I asked this the other day:

"And everything USAPA and every pilots does is about DOH, right? Then why would Captain Wells be involved? She is in the 517 that have their DOH."

Did I miss you answer?

 

[Pi brat]

Do try and keep up. Here is the original statement.

I do try to keep up, but keeping up with you is like following a schizophrenic gerbil. Hard to follow.

I think you are mixing apples an oranges, but you may be right. Hey, you didn't answer my question. If we cannot negotiate section 22, and it is indeed closed, why was Addington not ripe? And, if we cannot negotiate section 22, why did SFO say USAPA may come up with a solution that didn't rise to the west's worst fears?

 

[BoeingBoy]

She is in the 517 that have their DOH."

Technically, every pilot still has their DOH - only seniority numbers changed to reflect the greater number of pilots in the merged group. The top 517 didn't get there because of DOH, but because the East had widebody slots and the West didn't. If every one of those 517 had a DOH after the top West pilots they'd still be at the top of the Nic list.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Technically, every pilot still has their DOH - only seniority numbers changed to reflect the greater number of pilots in the merged group. The top 517 didn't get there because of DOH, but because the East had widebody slots and the West didn't. If every one of those 517 had a DOH after the top West pilots they'd still be at the top of the Nic list.

Jim

Correct, but they will still be in their DOH Nic or not. No reason for them to "fight" for DOH. Right? Res Jud has asserted that everything everyone east does is all about DOH. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And, if we cannot negotiate section 22, why did SFO say USAPA may come up with a solution that didn't rise to the west's worst fears?

Because there's a difference between legal and practical. A rhetorical question since there isn't a chance of it happening but if USAPA came up with a non-Nic list that didn't harm the Westies relative to the Nic where's the DFR? USAPA would have represented them equally and provided the protections that Nic did but via a different mechanism. In short, the 9th said USAPA can have a non-Nic list but better provide the same protections (or very nearly so) as Nic did. Otherwise it will face that "unquestionably ripe" DFR suit.

Jim