US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Technically, every pilot still has their DOH - only seniority numbers changed to reflect the greater number of pilots in the merged group. The top 517 didn't get there because of DOH, but because the East had widebody slots and the West didn't. If every one of those 517 had a DOH after the top West pilots they'd still be at the top of the Nic list.

Jim

If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him...is he still wrong?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Correct, but they will still be in their DOH Nic or not.

I think you mean they'll still be in their DOH order I think under Nic, not DOH since all of you on both sides have your same DOH with the Nic list. Since I'm not home I can't check it but it's possible that the 517 omits some easties who had a DOH within the range of the 517. Likewise, there are Easties who have a DOH before any Westie that aren't in the 517.

You have said 2 or 3 times that Nic ordered the first 517 by DOH then slotted after that. All I'm saying is that Nic didn't put the 517 Easties at the top because of their DOH. If he had ordered the top of the combined list by DOH there would be more than 517 Easties at the top of his list. Being in or out of the 517 has nothing to do with DOH and everything to do with who had widebody slots.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him...is he still wrong?

Sounds like you've got woman trouble...

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

Res Judicata,

I asked this the other day:

"And everything USAPA and every pilots does is about DOH, right? Then why would Captain Wells be involved? She is in the 517 that have their DOH."

Did I miss you answer?

Because she understands a unions DFR as thoroughly well as she does an A-330 electrical system?

 

[Pi brat]

I think you mean they'll still be in their DOH order I think under Nic, not DOH since all of you on both sides have your same DOH with the Nic list. Since I'm not home I can't check it but it's possible that the 517 omits some easties who had a DOH within the range of the 517. Likewise, there are Easties who have a DOH before any Westie that aren't in the 517.

You have said 2 or 3 times that Nic ordered the first 517 by DOH then slotted after that. All I'm saying is that Nic didn't put the 517 Easties at the top because of their DOH. If he had ordered the top of the combined list by DOH there would be more than 517 Easties at the top of his list. Being in or out of the 517 has nothing to do with DOH and everything to do with who had widebody slots.

Jim

Welcome back Jim. I agreed with you.

Let me try again as DOH is still bugging you. Res Jud has said everything the east does is about getting a DOH seniority list. I question that because the top 517(or what's left of them) will be in their same seniority position, Nic or USAPA proposal. Is that better?

 

[Pi brat]

Because she understands a unions DFR as thoroughly well as she does an A-330 electrical system?

That doesn't make any sense.

Ok, since you have no answer for that one, why don't you describe and diagram the A330 electrical system for us and show us exactly what happened and why she was wrong.

 

[Pi brat]

Because there's a difference between legal and practical. A rhetorical question since there isn't a chance of it happening but if USAPA came up with a non-Nic list that didn't harm the Westies relative to the Nic where's the DFR? USAPA would have represented them equally and provided the protections that Nic did but via a different mechanism. In short, the 9th said USAPA can have a non-Nic list but better provide the same protections (or very nearly so) as Nic did. Otherwise it will face that "unquestionably ripe" DFR suit.

Jim

So with that explanation, and you may be right, you seem to disagree with clear that USAPA cannot negotiate section 22.

 

[cynic]

If a man is standing in the middle of the forest speaking and there is no woman around to hear him...is he still wrong?

Given your track record; Yes, you're probably still wrong.

 

[cynic]

So with that explanation, and you may be right, you seem to disagree with clear that USAPA cannot negotiate section 22.

Given USAPA's stated intent of changing section 22 to the detriment of the west pilots, that would explain the difference between Jim and Clear. Jim is absolutely correct though.

 

[Pi brat]

Given USAPA's stated intent of changing section 22 to the detriment of the west pilots, that would explain the difference between Jim and Clear. Jim is absolutely correct though.

Maybe, I don't know. So clear is wrong. Good, we agree!

 

[mikey60]

The whole case is bull #### and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between the company's version and USAPA's version. Either way, it is a slippery slope to go down and the union has to defend these cases otherwise more would follow. Being a west pilot without a union (or has a union that actually works against you) this case is extremely scary.

The reason this whole thing started is mtc. and dispatch knew this was a FEMALE pilot and thought they could talk her into taking this flight. When she refused their egos overloaded with testosterone. The aircraft was repaired before it flew again. Good call Capt. Wells. Anyone want to bet that she doesnt get paid for all this?

 

[mikey60]

That is simply a combination of wishful thinking and paranoid delusion. A major airline simply does not operate the way USAPA is hoping to dupe the public into believing. It's disgraceful and epicaly selfish to attempt to undermine and deprive tens of thousands of co workers out of their livelihoods and benefits. All because the Eastholes demand all upgrades not just 2 out of 3.

Ames.... you may have changed your avatar but your still the same old Ames,stupid,stupid,stupid.

 

[nic4us]

The reason this whole thing started is mtc. and dispatch knew this was a FEMALE pilot and thought they could talk her into taking this flight. When she refused their egos overloaded with testosterone. The aircraft was repaired before it flew again. Good call Capt. Wells. Anyone want to bet that she doesnt get paid for all this?

So, how do you know the dispatcher was not a FEMALE? or that the mechanics were not FEMALE? or whether the corporate securiy that escorted her out were not FEMALE?

You have your leg lifted up the wrong tree there Mikey.

Another thing, who was going to fly the plane back?


As far as getting paid for this, I am betting with how crappy LOA93 is, she won't.

 

[mikey60]

Breeze,

I have a question. If corporate security got involved because the captain refused the flight. Who called them and informed them that the captain had refused the flight? Who instructed them to "escort" the crew away from the gate? Why wasn't the second crew "escorted" from the gate when they refused the flight?

Somewhere between the company story and the usa ad is the truth.

Thanks

Dispatch called the CSM who call the "goon squad".

 

[mikey60]

So, how do you know the dispatcher was not a FEMALE? or that the mechanics were not FEMALE? or whether the corporate securiy that escorted her out were not FEMALE?

You have your leg lifted up the wrong tree there Mikey.

Another thing, who was going to fly the plane back?


As far as getting paid for this, I am betting with how crappy LOA93 is, she won't.

Notice I said "dispatch" not dispatcher, there are no female mechanics on that side of PHL and the person that was there refered to the security people as "guys". Dont forget to put the seat down next time you have to "go" you might fall in. And if I understand last question correctly the crew will stay another night.