US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

The seniority award at Delta/NWA was handled just like yours.

Apples and apples

Man up and accept the arbitration award.

GF
Delta 757/767 Capt

Probably "real Delta" Do not combine with western pilots. From this board you should know better, be warned. What you see here is what they will do to you when you combine- complain, steal, snitch, expect an axe in the back. What you see, is what you will get. Reject any and all offers western, it is like the early settlers giving smallpox to the indians. They will infect you. Your Delta visitor is an enemy working for your enemy. His advice is fatal. Apples and Apples he says. Full of rot and worms. Throw them on the ground.

 

[Res Judicata]

Probably "real Delta" Do not combine with western pilots. From this board you should know better, be warned. What you see here is what they will do to you when you combine- complain, steal, snitch, expect an axe in the back. What you see, is what you will get. Reject any and all offers western, it is like the early settlers giving smallpox to the indians. They will infect you. Your Delta visitor is an enemy working for your enemy. His advice is fatal.

You do realize that just because you changed your ID it's still perfectly clear who you are right? There's no hiding your borderline psychosis Sumardson. You're just shouting at the waves at this point. Your fake union is going to financially destroy itself and anybody stupid enough to do their bidding. It's over. You fought a pointless war where the only real victim was you. Keep "fighting" all you want but just know that the world has moved beyond you and nobody will be looking back. The East is totally fractured into different factions and the West has been 100% effective in undermining and destroying your parasitic union experiment. The comparative analysis of the East/West operations in the TRO and Request for Injunction is the kill shot.

Where is Cleary BTW? Busy hiding what's left of his assets?

 

[Claxon]

You do realize that just because you changed your ID it's still perfectly clear who you are right? There's no hiding your borderline psychosis Sumardson. You're just shouting at the waves at this point. Your fake union is going to financially destroy itself and anybody stupid enough to do their bidding. It's over. You fought a pointless war where the only real victim was you. Keep "fighting" all you want but just know that the world has moved beyond you and nobody will be looking back. The East is totally fractured into different factions and the West has been 100% effective in undermining and destroying your parasitic union experiment. The comparative analysis of the East/West operations in the TRO and Request for Injunction is the kill shot.

Where is Cleary BTW? Busy hiding what's left of his assets?

Yes, I am Sumadarson. Because I obviously bear the similar message. He is a smart person if he also realizes the same. And you are the perfect example of western that I warn of. Eastern, read the message above. This is exactly the message you should heed. You never, ever, want to work with the above. Your best defense is never to combine with the above. Let him sputter and fizzle in his rantings. You hold the upper hand. Read the "kill shot" These are their intentions, work with Frank Air to kill you. Stay in your defense of the USAPA and no Niclou. This will defeat them.

 

[A320 Driver]

Regardless of the number of arbitrators, the award was similar. The two groups were integrated proportionally by seat and aircraft class, with a very small credit (115 slots?) given to the NWA side for some imminent retirements. Just like you guys. Just like the Pan Am merger, where the PA A310 guys were ratioed in with the 767ER guys and the 727 shuttle guys were ratioed in with the DL 727 guys.

Your award was "problematic" because the USAirways pilots blew a gasket over the award. The fact that ALPA tried to broker a compromise was due to the weak union leadership that (a) didn't prepare the pilot group for the unpredictable nature of binding arbitration, and then (B) tried to mitigate the East hysteria after the award.

Did you ever notice how the pay increase for added years of service is very small, and the increase for changing seat or equipment is much bigger? That'll show you what 15 years of seniority is worth.

GF

GF,
Might as well add you voice to the rest of us who come on here, make statements, pleas, whatever, and don't make one bit of difference in the big picture. You won't convince anyone of anything.

Enjoy your career.

Driver

 

[Res Judicata]

Yes, I am Sumadarson. Because I obviously bear the similar message. He is a smart person if he also realizes the same. And you are the perfect example of western that I warn of. Eastern, read the message above. This is exactly the message you should heed. You never, ever, want to work with the above. Your best defense is never to combine with the above. Let him sputter and fizzle in his rantings. You hold the upper hand. Read the "kill shot" These are their intentions, work with Frank Air to kill you. Stay in your defense of the USAPA and no Niclou. This will defeat them.

Keep shouting at those waves Nos.

 

[goneflyin]

GF,
Might as well add you voice to the rest of us who come on here, make statements, pleas, whatever, and don't make one bit of difference in the big picture. You won't convince anyone of anything.

Enjoy your career.

Driver

No, for the most part, I'm a lurker. I usually only speak up when mention is made of Delta. You are right, though. Nothing that is said on this board will change anything. Your issue will be decided in the courts. Good luck--

GF

 

[Claxon]

Keep shouting at those waves Nos.

The waves you are starting to slip under. Kill Shot. Makes it perfectly clear to eastern pilots. Don't give any western a shot at anything. You are doing a great job not combining, this takes the shot away. Takes their gun to the bottom of the sea.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

The waves you are starting to slip under. Kill Shot. Makes it perfectly clear to eastern pilots. Don't give any western a shot at anything. You are doing a great job not combining, this takes the shot away. Takes their gun to the bottom of the sea.

Damn thats nuts.

Not one coherent thought in that post.

 

[AWA320]

Thanks for that.

Maybe hearing it from someone else will help the easties.

Naw it wont, deaf and brain dead to reality. Usapa is on the way out with nothing to show for it but a 400million dollar bill that only east will pay. What a complete utter epic fail usapa has been. This is what greed will net you. Pay close attention children of the future as you watch senior east captains retire next year with the worst contract in the WORLD and pay at less than a 90seat RJ captain. I feel so sorry for the east as they have sentenced themselves to far worse than any company could..

AWA320

 

[Code Name V]

Can't wait until the judge orders a TRO against USAPA.

Guys like that douche that wrote that pink panty email can then be fined and/or jailed.

This is great. I can just see a judge telling usapa that it's members are now 'required' to take broken aircraft and delay or not write them up when they know it is illegal to do so. Then the judge can tell usapa that their members must not call in fatigued or sick even though the company has understaffed the airline. Then they can 'require' a 'minimum speed for taxiing aircraft. Then they can dictate the minimum amount of fuel for dispatch regardless of weather or traffic. Yea, right. My guess is that it will just make it worse. Parker is in a no win situation with this filing. We have been doing alot for this company above and beyond the call of duty. How many of us have flown sick? How many have pushed the limits? Well, no longer. No one I know will do anything above the min and the min is set by the FOM.

Bottom line is that when you adhere to the FOM as stated, you will find that you have been doing things wrong and possibly illegally for a very long time and the company has come to believe that this is the norm. Now they expect you to hold write ups and to be in a hurry and to take short cuts and to do what is best for Doug Parker. This is no longer the norm and Parker and co. will now have to adjust to the new paradigm that they have been telling us about for years. Get used to it Doug. Ain't gonna get better any time soon regardless of your BS filings.

BTW; any one of us could have come up with that 'expert' witness report. Just because someone has lots of letters on his door does not make him an expert but I guess he becomes one when you pay him enough?

V

 

[CallawayGolf]

This is great. I can just see a judge telling usapa that it's members are now 'required' to take broken aircraft and delay or not write them up when they know it is illegal to do so. Then the judge can tell usapa that their members must not call in fatigued or sick even though the company has understaffed the airline. Then they can 'require' a 'minimum speed for taxiing aircraft. Then they can dictate the minimum amount of fuel for dispatch regardless of weather or traffic. Yea, right. My guess is that it will just make it worse. Parker is in a no win situation with this filing. We have been doing alot for this company above and beyond the call of duty. How many of us have flown sick? How many have pushed the limits? Well, no longer. No one I know will do anything above the min and the min is set by the FOM.

Bottom line is that when you adhere to the FOM as stated, you will find that you have been doing things wrong and possibly illegally for a very long time and the company has come to believe that this is the norm. Now they expect you to hold write ups and to be in a hurry and to take short cuts and to do what is best for Doug Parker. This is no longer the norm and Parker and co. will now have to adjust to the new paradigm that they have been telling us about for years. Get used to it Doug. Ain't gonna get better any time soon regardless of your BS filings.

BTW; any one of us could have come up with that 'expert' witness report. Just because someone has lots of letters on his door does not make him an expert but I guess he becomes one when you pay him enough?

V

So, do you plan to continue to "adhere to the FOM as stated" even after USAPA negotiates a favorable CBA, or will you go back to regular operations once you have the pay rates you are seeking? The court fines and east assessments could be quite an onerous burden to the east pilots whether they are still on LOA93 or some form of an industry standard CBA. The court will not really care what the FOM says, only that the illegal work slowdown stops as identified by the company's performance metrics.

Quite a conundrum USAPA has now created for you...continue to disrupt operations and get a hefty assessment while still on LOA93 just for doing what is required and safe, or get a new contract and then be forced to admit that the work slowdown had nothing to do with safety but was really all about trying, in vain, to illegally gain negotiating leverage. Hmm, what will you do? Oh well, think of it this way, each dollar of assessment that flows from your paycheck back into the Company's bank account might eventually come back to you by way of a profit sharing check - your slice of the 10% anyway. 😉

 

[nycbusdriver]

Goons and thugs. When all you have is intimidation, you don't have much. Way to live down to the stereotype that most of America has of unions. Thick neck guys named Rudy threatening people. And bonus points for the spelling of "looser" geez, this guy is from central casting.

Lose - to not win, to misplace something
Loose - your best friend's sister in High School

I agree with you to a large extent. This campaign is counterproductive in almost every aspect that I can think of. If continued, it will divide east pilots from east pilots, and who knows what the eventual meltdown will look like.

For that reason, I really don't think this is an action started or condoned by the union. The internet, for better or worse, has given everyone a wide access to post information. Theoretically, this could be the work of one disgruntled pilot. Why in the world would USAPA wish to alienate any east pilot who is operating within the confines of the contract? Granted, the contract does give some latitude on how much a pilot chooses to fly, or not fly. But this demeaning campaign is engendering more division within a group that is way too divided already, thankyouverymuch.

It's a maverick pilot (or maybe even a company planted pilot?) or a small group of such. Sorry, I don;t think it's USAPA's doing, but I do agree that "when all you have is intimidation, you don't have much." (Someone might send that quote off to Tempe, too!)

 

[nycbusdriver]

No, for the most part, I'm a lurker. I usually only speak up when mention is made of Delta. You are right, though. Nothing that is said on this board will change anything. Your issue will be decided in the courts. Good luck--

GF

Maybe you should talk to the NW pilots about how much they like being "Delta." A good friend of 25 years was a NW A330 captain. He hates Delta so much that he is taking retirement at age 56 to put as much distance between himself and your much-loved Delta. I doubt he's the only one.

 

[nycbusdriver]

We have been doing alot for this company above and beyond the call of duty.

V, you are spot on correct in your entire post.

We have given this company 120% effort for so many years trying to keep it afloat despite mismanagement and non-management, that they can't handle it when we give them 100%.

 

[Res Judicata]

This is great. I can just see a judge telling usapa that it's members are now 'required' to take broken aircraft and delay or not write them up when they know it is illegal to do so. Then the judge can tell usapa that their members must not call in fatigued or sick even though the company has understaffed the airline. Then they can 'require' a 'minimum speed for taxiing aircraft. Then they can dictate the minimum amount of fuel for dispatch regardless of weather or traffic. Yea, right. My guess is that it will just make it worse. Parker is in a no win situation with this filing. We have been doing alot for this company above and beyond the call of duty. How many of us have flown sick? How many have pushed the limits? Well, no longer. No one I know will do anything above the min and the min is set by the FOM.

Bottom line is that when you adhere to the FOM as stated, you will find that you have been doing things wrong and possibly illegally for a very long time and the company has come to believe that this is the norm. Now they expect you to hold write ups and to be in a hurry and to take short cuts and to do what is best for Doug Parker. This is no longer the norm and Parker and co. will now have to adjust to the new paradigm that they have been telling us about for years. Get used to it Doug. Ain't gonna get better any time soon regardless of your BS filings.

BTW; any one of us could have come up with that 'expert' witness report. Just because someone has lots of letters on his door does not make him an expert but I guess he becomes one when you pay him enough?

V

Right. Tell it to the Judge! I hope USAPA uses the "playing dumb" defense. Keep it up.