US Pilots Labor Discussion

[goneflyin]

Maybe you should talk to the NW pilots about how much they like being "Delta." A good friend of 25 years was a NW A330 captain. He hates Delta so much that he is taking retirement at age 56 to put as much distance between himself and your much-loved Delta. I doubt he's the only one.

There are some ticked off former NWA guys---and some ticked off original DAL guys, too. My general observation has been the moderately senior and very junior NWA guys have issues, and the mid seniority DAL guys have issues. The amount of change in procedures and aircraft basing/destinations has caused plenty of angst for both sides, as well.

That being said, the merger was a good thing for both airlines.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I agree with you to a large extent. This campaign is counterproductive in almost every aspect that I can think of. If continued, it will divide east pilots from east pilots, and who knows what the eventual meltdown will look like.

For that reason, I really don't think this is an action started or condoned by the union. The internet, for better or worse, has given everyone a wide access to post information. Theoretically, this could be the work of one disgruntled pilot. Why in the world would USAPA wish to alienate any east pilot who is operating within the confines of the contract? Granted, the contract does give some latitude on how much a pilot chooses to fly, or not fly. But this demeaning campaign is engendering more division within a group that is way too divided already, thankyouverymuch.

It's a maverick pilot (or maybe even a company planted pilot?) or a small group of such. Sorry, I don;t think it's USAPA's doing, but I do agree that "when all you have is intimidation, you don't have much." (Someone might send that quote off to Tempe, too!)

Well now maybe my message of civility is taking hold (I doubt it, but one can hope?) I tend to agree with you that USAPA is likely not behind this alleged "illegal job action" or worst case has plausible defensibility to successfully defend themselves.

Assuming that USPA is not totally stupid I think the question is in part, Would Jerry Glass stoop to the level of hiring a few "plants". I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[767jetz]

He is a smart person

It's official. Claxon has outed himself. There is only one person who would consider Nos "a smart person."

(That would be himself)

 

[nevergiveup]

Maybe you should talk to the NW pilots about how much they like being "Delta." A good friend of 25 years was a NW A330 captain. He hates Delta so much that he is taking retirement at age 56 to put as much distance between himself and your much-loved Delta. I doubt he's the only one.

The Delta employee group has always been the most brainwashed in the industry. Just talk to one about their pilot graduation ceremony. You are the best of the best of the best......uh I think that might be Macdill. ......Hey, if it can happen to one it can happen to another.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Well now maybe my message of civility is taking hold (I doubt it, but one can hope?) I tend to agree with you that USAPA is likely not behind this alleged "illegal job action" or worst case has plausible defensibility to successfully defend themselves.

Assuming that USPA is not totally stupid I think the question is in part, Would Jerry Glass stoop to the level of hiring a few "plants". I wouldn't put it past him.

I'd love to know your logic on why you tend to think USAPA is not behind this action. I can't think of a single thing they have done to engender that kind of benefit of the doubt, but go ahead.

Of course it really doesn't matter. USAPA may never have lifted a finger to slow down operations, but they still have a federally-mandated duty to ensure that any such illegal activity from one or more pilots ceases immediately upon notification by Management. If USAPA cannot control the pilots acting illegally, then they will be hit hard by the courts and that will translate to a pain felt by every east pilot. Believe what you want, USAPA had better get it's house in order (fat chance) or the courts will drop the hammer. Couldn't happen to a more deserving "union".

 

[767one]

This is great. I can just see a judge telling usapa that it's members are now 'required' to take broken aircraft and delay or not write them up when they know it is illegal to do so. Then the judge can tell usapa that their members must not call in fatigued or sick even though the company has understaffed the airline. Then they can 'require' a 'minimum speed for taxiing aircraft. Then they can dictate the minimum amount of fuel for dispatch regardless of weather or traffic. Yea, right. My guess is that it will just make it worse. Parker is in a no win situation with this filing. We have been doing alot for this company above and beyond the call of duty. How many of us have flown sick? How many have pushed the limits? Well, no longer. No one I know will do anything above the min and the min is set by the FOM.

Bottom line is that when you adhere to the FOM as stated, you will find that you have been doing things wrong and possibly illegally for a very long time and the company has come to believe that this is the norm. Now they expect you to hold write ups and to be in a hurry and to take short cuts and to do what is best for Doug Parker. This is no longer the norm and Parker and co. will now have to adjust to the new paradigm that they have been telling us about for years. Get used to it Doug. Ain't gonna get better any time soon regardless of your BS filings.

BTW; any one of us could have come up with that 'expert' witness report. Just because someone has lots of letters on his door does not make him an expert but I guess he becomes one when you pay him enough?

V

V,

I don't think I have had more than 1 flight within 15 min. of sched. in the past month and it has nothing to do with a slow down. Sun. the 7th was typical. Sched. to depart to DUB at 9pm local, aircraft on a 6pm etr, etr bumped to 10pm, ask for IRO, request ignored/denied. Etr bumped to 5am, and aircraft swap. Preflight new aircraft and load fmc and mech comes to cockpit to tell us to expect an aircraft swap. The mechanic said he just put 6 qts. of oil in the #1 eng.....no good for etops. Switch to a/c #3 and attempt to get 3rd release for this flight and it took 3 attempts to get a release from the gate. Flight attendants could not get to the aircraft due to Intl. security inspection and when they are finally let down to the gate a supervisor (pass. service) follows them down and says they are going to board. The A f/a tells him they need to let the f/a's check their equipment and his response was that it is his airplane when on the gate and he is going to send the pax down. At this point I leave the cockpit and get between the supervisor and the f/a and tell him to get off the airplane and let the f/a's do their jobs and we will tell him when to send the pax down. We finally leave almost 2 hrs. late. You can do your job 100% or 150% and it does not matter when cheap and ontime are the only important criteria for the management???? of the this airline. If I get a couple of hrs. I'll tell you about the return flight but right now it is time for a beer!

Regards,


Bob

 

[goneflyin]

The Delta employee group has always been the most brainwashed in the industry. Just talk to one about their pilot graduation ceremony. You are the best of the best of the best......uh I think that might be Macdill. ......Hey, if it can happen to one it can happen to another.

This is the first I've ever heard of a "Pilot Graduation Ceremony". Is it something new? When I was hired (24 years ago), we finished our pilot training at different times, and frequently in different cities. There usually wasn't an opportunity to even get together socially before we headed off to our new bases. There certainly wasn't a "Graduation Ceremony".

Frankly, I think you're just making this stuff up, and you're not very good at it

 

[Res Judicata]

It's now 3+ years. These Liars and Thieves were WRONG about EVERYTHING. Even Seham has abandoned USAPA. The East Pilots can either come to their senses and realize that the whole experiment is a failure and kick USAPA off the property or retire under LOA93.

Those are the only two choices.




These are the "gentlemen" that have relieved all of you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Barrister]

No, for the most part, I'm a lurker. I usually only speak up when mention is made of Delta. You are right, though. Nothing that is said on this board will change anything. Your issue will be decided in the courts. Good luck--

GF

Well educate yourself a little if you are going to play here. Numerous 16-17 year US Airways pilots who were never
furloughed were placed junior to America West new hires who had NEVER FLOWN A REVENUE TRIP
Have some of that in your merger???........didn't think so.!


NICDOA
NPJB

 

[NoYellowNeck]

V, you are spot on correct in your entire post.

We have given this company 120% effort for so many years trying to keep it afloat despite mismanagement and non-management, that they can't handle it when we give them 100%.

The company you gave 120% for is long gone.

That is equity you left behind.

You started over with LCC.

 

[mrbreeze]

The company you gave 120% for is long gone.

That is equity you left behind.

You started over with LCC.

LCC...like I said,

a flush down the toilet, disrespect for their employees, and a fight to the death for our seniority....quite the contrast to the NW/DL merger

apples and oranges

breeze

 

[nic4us]

Well educate yourself a little if you are going to play here. Numerous 16-17 year US Airways pilots who were never
furloughed were placed junior to America West new hires who had NEVER FLOWN A REVENUE TRIP
Have some of that in your merger???........didn't think so.!


NICDOA
NPJB

Completely false statement.....

What the DL/NW pilots did not have in ther merger was a bunch of reneging malcontents whose word is worthless, and after the fact make up lies to support their defensless position.

 

[nic4us]

It's now 3+ years. These Liars and Thieves were WRONG about EVERYTHING. Even Seham has abandoned USAPA. The East Pilots can either come to their senses and realize that the whole experiment is a failure and kick USAPA off the property or retire under LOA93.

Those are the only two choices.




These are the "gentlemen" that have relieved all of you out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Res,

I can think of a third choice.

The east pilots can stay the course, keep fighting and get handed the pink slip they should have been given in 2005.

 

[nic4us]

LCC...like I said,

a flush down the toilet, disrespect for their employees, and a fight to the death for our seniority....quite the contrast to the NW/DL merger

apples and oranges

breeze

Breeze,

Serious question here. Why should the company show any respect for a pilot group that does not respect itself? Or for that matter, any employees that do not respect themselves.

From the begining, the east pilots never considered the West pilots their equals, and thought they had the upper hand in every event that has unfolded. Like I have been saying all along, the reason for this is because you never understand the position you are in, and it is never a good one. The east thought this was just another USAir buys somebody else merger (absolutely the furthest thing from the truth), and that those pesky desert commuter pilots would be just fine with getting tacked on to the almighty east list, as a backdoor in to a "real airline".

Your blatant disregard for the position and status of the West pilots, West employees and America West Airlines, has been the biggest impediment in this entire fiasco.

In the simplest terms, respect is earned, and the east pilot group has not done anything to earn anyones respect.

 

[goneflyin]

Well educate yourself a little if you are going to play here. Numerous 16-17 year US Airways pilots who were never
furloughed were placed junior to America West new hires who had NEVER FLOWN A REVENUE TRIP
Have some of that in your merger???........didn't think so.!


NICDOA
NPJB

I'm more educated about this than you think. I followed the mediation/ arbitration. I read Mr. Nicolau's award. I followed the ugly aftermath. I mostly followed it because I have an interest in Labor Relations dating back to college, where I majored in labor relations.

What made me really start paying attention, though, was Doug Parker's run at Delta. The USAirways guys I encountered always seemed to want to know when I was hired (1987, BTW), and what seat/equipment I could hold (B777, BTW). These A320 F/Os (who were hired about when I was) could already see themselves sliding into the left seat of a 767 after a merger. Their greed was palpable.

At that point, I understood why the USAirways pilots (the F/Os, anyway) always seem to be hoping for a merger partner. You guys are even doing that now; hoping that AMR becomes the next carcass through which you'll advance your career.

You agreed to binding arbitration. You should honor your agreement. To do otherwise is, well...dishonorable.