US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

The arbitration is only binding on the conditions that spawned it. Those conditions changed, not to mention the unacknowledged lottery ticket it engendered.

Four and a half years is it since the western pilots "won?" Seems the ticket is neither binding nor able to be redeemed........

 

[SparrowHawk]

This is exactly what the disciples of Franke Air America West strive for. An airline structured by management, flown by robotron western pilots. A new world order. Then the gun gets turned on the western to their dismay.

Adapted to this topic. "They" equals US Senior Management

First they came for the Elite Customers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Elite Customer.

Then they came for the pilot union USAPA,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't in favor of USAPA.

Then they came for the Flight Attendants,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Flight Attendant.

Then they came for the West Pilots
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Sometimes History has a way of repeating.

 

[nic4us]

Seniority equals experience.

Not according to usapa. usapa says DOH=seniority,,

If seniority equalled experience, the West would have far more east pilots below them than they do on the Nic.

Further, the usapa seniority theft scheme places east pilots with far less LOS above West pilots with more of the same.

 

[nic4us]

Four and a half years is it since the western pilots "won?" Seems the ticket is neither binding nor able to be redeemed........

Hey yoda,,,much to learn, you still have.

 

[mrbreeze]

My seniority held an A320 lineholding left seat. Nic said I get to keep the seniority to hold my position within the new company, that is all no more no less.

Nic did not cause the disrespect. The east MC came to the table with DOH, after being told by everybody involved it would not be a fair integration. The yellow "seniority is not for sale" lanyards, the DOH bag stickers.etc..etc. The east pilots never looked at a guy like me and said, now their is a A320 captain making more money than me on a better contract, they looked at me and though,,,I am going to be senior to him, regardless of the position they held. That is the lack of respect I am talking about.

Nic,

I get your point...there was a tremendous amount of pressure that came out of the east MEC. Try to understand that a lot of that pressure was generated by the warring factions inside the MEC. All hell was breaking loose after the 2 BKs, loss of pension, etc. It seemed that each MEC faction had to show the pilot group that it was tougher than the opposite faction. It's a shame that it all came across to you guys in the way that it did. Most of us were just hanging on while the world was spinning off it's axis. If we had had cooler heads at that time, I think things could have gone a lot better. It was an ugly time.

As far as your saying that NIC preserved seat on the bus.....that is what the DOH fences have always protected in the ALPA mergers that I have been involved with in the past, and what the C&Rs are designed to do that are proposed today. However, I can understand your mistrust with it all.

breeze

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Four pilot seniority arbrations in a row say you're wrong.

Name them, if you can. Please.

 

[jetjok1]

Four pilot seniority arbrations in a row say you're wrong.

thought you were on a month's leave of absence........When are you going to start?

 

[jetjok1]

Lots of things fall in the coulda woulda shoulda category, for all of us. The best thing I think we can do at this point is just let events run their course and not kill each other(figuratively of course) in the mean time. That way when the time is right for a mutually beneficial way of moving forward, we'll have a firmer platform to work from.

I completely agree with you Sir!

 

[Pi brat]

After a day from hell on the line I caught this on US Daily:

"In addition to weather and airport construction projects in our hubs, slow taxis and other illegal job actions that cause flights to arrive after the DOT on-time arrival window resulted in our customers and their bags misconnecting."

Not alleged, flat out, guilty until proven innocent, illegal job action. It is open season on pilots. Here's a clue for you at the top. If the majority of east pilots were performing a job action, our numbers wouldn't be as good as they were. Take care of where the trouble is, instead of taking a shotgun to everyone.

 

[Pi brat]

Lots of things fall in the coulda woulda shoulda category, for all of us. The best thing I think we can do at this point is just let events run their course and not kill each other(figuratively of course) in the mean time. That way when the time is right for a mutually beneficial way of moving forward, we'll have a firmer platform to work from.

If we only had someone like you in a leadership role at either the company or the union. Nice post.

 

[Pi brat]

Four pilot seniority arbrations in a row say you're wrong.

Did NW get all the 747 captain on F/O slots on the top? I wonder if their arbitrators used the PID status, but the fleet and slots from two years later? Know where I can find their award? Mr. DL pilot that was here earlier, can you answer?

 

[nic4us]

Nic,

I get your point...there was a tremendous amount of pressure that came out of the east MEC. Try to understand that a lot of that pressure was generated by the warring factions inside the MEC. All hell was breaking loose after the 2 BKs, loss of pension, etc. It seemed that each MEC faction had to show the pilot group that it was tougher than the opposite faction. It's a shame that it all came across to you guys in the way that it did. Most of us were just hanging on while the world was spinning off it's axis. If we had had cooler heads at that time, I think things could have gone a lot better. It was an ugly time.

As far as your saying that NIC preserved seat on the bus.....that is what the DOH fences have always protected in the ALPA mergers that I have been involved with in the past, and what the C&Rs are designed to do that are proposed today. However, I can understand your mistrust with it all.

breeze

It is not just about not trusting a group that has already proven itself to be untrustworthy.

usapa has no place determining the C&Rs, or my position and status.

I did not say the Nic presevered my seat on the Bus, I said it preserved my position within the company. Nic said any pilot with position and status of greater value than mine will remain senior to me, and any pilot holding a position and status of less value than mine will remain junior to me. Then we all move forward together.

That is a far cry from what usapa is trying to do with its C&Rs.

 

[mrbreeze]

It is not just about not trusting a group that has already proven itself to be untrustworthy.

usapa has no place determining the C&Rs, or my position and status.

I did not say the Nic presevered my seat on the Bus, I said it preserved my position within the company. Nic said any pilot with position and status of greater value than mine will remain senior to me, and any pilot holding a position and status of less value than mine will remain junior to me. Then we all move forward together.

That is a far cry from what usapa is trying to do with its C&Rs.

Well, that is where we part....apparently you have an ax to grind and a lot to lose if NIC is not part of our future.

At this point, USAPA has just as much to say in determining your future as NIC does....neither are in place, so all you have is your AW seniority. While you are demanding the NIC, you are screwing me out of a chance to get back in the left seat for the last 6 yrs that I have left here.....so who is being agressive? What is it that you hope to gain from the language that you just stated? Planning to leap frog over as many as possible in order to feed your greed? Your position would be protected....but not mine.

You just lost my respect.

gawd

 

[Pi brat]

It is not just about not trusting a group that has already proven itself to be untrustworthy.

Johnny Mac stood up in front of Parker and asked how to turn east pilots in, but I don't hold that against every west pilot.

 

[cleardirect]

Nic,

I get your point...there was a tremendous amount of pressure that came out of the east MEC. Try to understand that a lot of that pressure was generated by the warring factions inside the MEC. All hell was breaking loose after the 2 BKs, loss of pension, etc. It seemed that each MEC faction had to show the pilot group that it was tougher than the opposite faction. It's a shame that it all came across to you guys in the way that it did. Most of us were just hanging on while the world was spinning off it's axis. If we had had cooler heads at that time, I think things could have gone a lot better. It was an ugly time.

As far as your saying that NIC preserved seat on the bus.....that is what the DOH fences have always protected in the ALPA mergers that I have been involved with in the past, and what the C&Rs are designed to do that are proposed today. However, I can understand your mistrust with it all.

breeze

You complain or try to explain why the east did what you did. That you had warring factions and poor leadership under AA ALPA not national. So in order to correct your problems you vote out ALPA and replaced them with usapa and elect Mike Cleary and the other hard core nut jobs even less skilled and more fractioned than ALPA. This makes sense to you and the east pilots?

Do you now think that you have cooler heads with usapa? Do you think that we are better off now or is it getting uglier with Cleary and gang in charge? Do you think that most of this noise coming from usapa now is to make the pilots think that usapa is doing something or do you think they are actually doing something?