US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Any alleged union "action" has not come from anyone in USAPA. This is pure grass-roots. You know, sorta like the tea baggers though the "on-board" folks know enough not to lick someone's "bags".

Don't you get it? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Grass roots or not, the company told the union to stop it and they did nothing to stop it. So the union is left holding the bag for the actions of those who ARE doing it. (If the judge is convinced it is actually happening). The injunction and TRO is against USAPA and Cleary, not the individual pilots. Although the pilots, all of them, WILL pay the price for any consequences. And changing unions after the fact will not let you escape those consequences.

You are so far off in your thinking you have no idea. You can keep whistling past the graveyard. That's your choice. But you guys are facing some serious stuff.

 

[Claxon]

Don't you get it? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Grass roots or not, the company told the union to stop it and they did nothing to stop it. So the union is left holding the bag for the actions of those who ARE doing it. (If the judge is convinced it is actually happening). The injunction and TRO is against USAPA and Cleary, not the individual pilots. Although the pilots, all of them, WILL pay the price for any consequences. And changing unions after the fact will not let you escape those consequences.

You are so far off in your thinking you have no idea. You can keep whistling past the graveyard. That's your choice. But you guys are facing some serious stuff.

Stop what? Writing up broken airplanes? Do you advocate carrying broken aircraft like Franke Air wishes? Prove it is anything illegal. The eastern pilots are simply following the company wide program of safety first. It is smart of Franke Air to initiate the program. Now they have to follow up and stop persecuting those who follow the mandates. Serious stuff? Absolutely. If the Franke Air group wishes to prosecute pilots for being safe, then they should have the record to back it up. Doug Parker has already demonstrated a lack of following maintenance issues to the satisfaction of the FAA. Franke Air is known for skating on thin ice.


America West: We're Not Being Grounded


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T E M P E, Ariz., Dec. 8
America West Airlines officials are denying reports in an upcoming issue of U.S. News and World Report suggesting that the airline is in danger of being grounded by the Federal Aviation Administration.

Company President Doug Parker says America West is working closely with the FAA to resolve operational problems identified this summer.


Parker says the FAA has assured him it’s happy with the airline’s progress, and he denies there are any safety issues at America West.

U.S. News and World Report issued a news release Thursday quoting FAA flight standards director Nick Lacey as saying America West is “perilously close” to being grounded.

In the release, Lacey is quoted as saying his agency is nearing the point where it would “have to start questioning the competency, qualifications and commitment” of America West’s management team.


Maybe this commitment should be reconsidered once more.................

 

[767jetz]

Not alleged, flat out, guilty until proven innocent, illegal job action. It is open season on pilots.

While I agree with you that referring to an illegal job action before the court rules on anything is wrong, it certainly DOES sound like a page out of the USAPA play book. I guess the company has taken notice of USAPA's game... Cactus 18, identity theft, etc. Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Pi brat]

While I agree with you that referring to an illegal job action before the court rules on anything is wrong, it certainly DOES sound like a page out of the USAPA play book. I guess the company has taken notice of USAPA's game... Cactus 18, identity theft, etc. Guilty until proven innocent.

Two wrongs make a right? It is the company's job to LEAD. I expect them to be better than that.

 

[767jetz]

Did NW get all the 747 captain on F/O slots on the top? I wonder if their arbitrators used the PID status, but the fleet and slots from two years later? Know where I can find their award? Mr. DL pilot that was here earlier, can you answer?

I believe in their merger the NW747 and DL777 were considered the same pay/mission. So they 747 pilots were not on top but slotted together. This has been a point of contention in the UA/CO merger because CO has only 777 while UA has both 747 and 777, and the 747 was historically a higher paying, higher seniority fleet. We'll see how that one pans out.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't you get it? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Grass roots or not, the company told the union to stop it and they did nothing to stop it. So the union is left holding the bag for the actions of those who ARE doing it. (If the judge is convinced it is actually happening). The injunction and TRO is against USAPA and Cleary, not the individual pilots. Although the pilots, all of them, WILL pay the price for any consequences. And changing unions after the fact will not let you escape those consequences.

You are so far off in your thinking you have no idea. You can keep whistling past the graveyard. That's your choice. But you guys are facing some serious stuff.

For pilots that have been flying under RLA for as long as they have. Clueless about the reality of their surroundings and how things work. I am really beginning to wonder just how bad US Airways management was if these guys have no idea what was going on and the former management just allowed this stuff. Or never educated east pilots on the workings of RLA and union responsibility.

We are now seeing why the east pilots think that final and binding does not mean final and binding. Clueless!

 

[Claxon]

While I agree with you that referring to an illegal job action before the court rules on anything is wrong, it certainly DOES sound like a page out of the USAPA play book. I guess the company has taken notice of USAPA's game... Cactus 18, identity theft, etc. Guilty until proven innocent.

And USAPA and legal are fully cognizent of Franke Airs' past record with maintenance issues with the FAA. I am sure the judge will be made aware of this.

 

[cleardirect]

Two wrongs make a right? It is the company's job to LEAD. I expect them to be better than that.

I would think that a good union pilot such as yourself would expect the union to lead not the company. So you give the union a pass on acting better than they have? Do you not expect better from the union than the company?

 

[cleardirect]

And USAPA and legal are fully cognizent of Franke Airs' past record with maintenance issues with the FAA. I am sure the judge will be made aware of this.

Feel free. Please bring it up. It is the FAA that has authority over MX not usapa. What relevance does an old article have on the current situation? The company used data for the past 4 years. Try and stay on point.

I guess the men in white coats have not found you yet. Do be careful we don't want you hurting yourself or anyone else while you are out of the "rest facility".

 

[Claxon]

Feel free. Please bring it up. It is the FAA that has authority over MX not usapa. What relevance does an old article have on the current situation? The company used data for the past 4 years. Try and stay on point.

I guess the men in white coats have not found you yet. Do be careful we don't want you hurting yourself or anyone else while you are out of the "rest facility".

The point is the airline management has a poor record with the FAA in this regard. Does the FAA wear white coats? Does the fact your airline CEO has a poor record with the FAA make you accuse others of being crazy? Face the fact your airline is a poor example of a competently run airline. They accuse pilots of maintenance issues they spawn themselves through poor management. You must have flown unsafe aircraft and carried them. This explains the disparity between eastern and western. Western pilots are used to colluding with Franke Air in operating substandard maintenance procedures. This explains why the eastern pilots find issue with Franke Air methods. Why didn t your ALPA safety reps address these massive allegations from the FAA? Do they cooperate with management in covering up safety issues until they can be used as a tool against the Real USAirways pilots? The industry story is western carries maintenance that should be accomplished to skew the figures against eastern. Disgusting. Then they back Franke Air again. Perhaps the judge will be made aware of the past record of the Franke Air Group with FAA maintenance issues. Perhaps the judge will agree eastern pilots are not willing to collude with Franke Air as do the western pilots, as the western really do not understand good maintenance procedures. Perhaps this explains the western operating certificate being discarded for the eastern, to try and drop the stigma carried by Franke Air. The western ETOPS was a debacle. Numerous attempts, until eastern straightened it out.


FAA May Ground America West


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P H O E N I X, Aug. 26
America West planes will be grounded unless the airline proves within a week that it has completed maintenance on a quarter of its fleet, federal regulators said Friday.

It was the second time this year in which the nation’s ninth-largest carrier faced disciplinary action over maintenance issues. The Federal Aviation Administration threatened in January to bar the suburban Tempe-based airline from acquiring additional planes until it provided adequate maintenance for the ones it had.

This time, David Gillom of the FAA told the airline by letter that, based on an audit and review, “we have serious concerns about American West’s continuous airworthiness maintenance program.”

Overall, the airline must show it has completed the checks on 35 of its 130 planes.

Airline Says It Can Answer Charges

America West President Douglas Parker and other senior executives were away on a company retreat and couldn’t be reached for comment, but Parker issued a statement saying the airline has completed the required maintenance and can prove it.

 

[767jetz]

I expect them to be better than that.

You expect too much. Maybe you should start by expecting your union reps to be "better than that."

The company is probably just as fed up with USAPA as the west pilot are. Maybe calling the injunction a done deal is their way of stirring up enough east pilot emotion to continue long enough to ensure a TRO and damages.

 

[Claxon]

You expect too much. Maybe you should start by expecting your union reps to be "better than that."

The company is probably just as fed up with USAPA as the west pilot are. Maybe calling the injunction a done deal is their way of stirring up enough east pilot emotion to continue long enough to ensure a TRO and damages.

Perhaps everyone is disgusted with the entire USAirways Group management team. Maintenance incompetents, labor bashers, a malignant force in the industry.

 

[Pi brat]

You expect too much. Maybe you should start by expecting your union reps to be "better than that."

The company is probably just as fed up with USAPA as the west pilot are. Maybe calling the injunction a done deal is their way of stirring up enough east pilot emotion to continue long enough to ensure a TRO and damages.

I know being at United for awhile has tainted you, but I don't think it is too much to expect our management to run a safe, productive and profitable company.

But you may be right, they can't seem to make money except for nickel and diming our customers(even with the lowest labor costs), maybe they are looking for damages as another revenue stream.

 

[cleardirect]

Do they cooperate with management in covering up safety issues until they can be used as a tool against the Real USAirways pilots? Then they back Franke Air again.

Here we go. REAL Us Airways pilots. You are not DAL or Eastern. Get over yourself. AWA NEVER wanted to be US Air pilots. So to us and most of the indusrty being a real Us airways pilots is a bad thing. Dishonest, failed airline, lack of integrity. So you keep being a REAL Us Airways pilot. The rest of will reluctantly say we were merged into this disaster. Being a REAL US Airways pilot is not something to be proud of.

BTW Frank left 10 years ago. Should we call you Wolf air?

 

[Claxon]

Here we go. REAL Us Airways pilots. You are not DAL or Eastern. Get over yourself. AWA NEVER wanted to be US Air pilots. So to us and most of the indusrty being a real Us airways pilots is a bad thing. Dishonest, failed airline, lack of integrity. So you keep being a REAL Us Airways pilot. The rest of will reluctantly say we were merged into this disaster. Being a REAL US Airways pilot is not something to be proud of.

BTW Frank left 10 years ago. Should we call you Wolf air?

Face the truth, you don't have any understanding of how a decent airline operates.





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F.A.A. Warning For America West
Published: August 27, 2000
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Federal regulators are threatening to ground America West's planes unless the airline proves within a week that it has completed maintenance on a quarter of its fleet.

A warning issued on Friday by the Federal Aviation Administration expressed concern about deferred maintenance and poor oversight of heavy maintenance conducted by outside vendors.

Based on an audit and review, ''we have serious concerns about America West's continuous airworthiness maintenance program,'' David Gillom, the agency's flight standards division manager, said in a letter.

The airline must show it has completed the checks on 35 of its 130 planes, the agency said.

Douglas Parker, president of America West, contends that the airline has completed the required maintenance and can prove it.

The aviation administration is auditing nine of the nation's major carriers in response to an Alaska Airlines crash that killed 88 people in January and led to a review of Alaska's maintenance practices. Six of those audits have been completed.



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